Tuesday, April 10, 2012

A Further Examination of Anti-"Mormon" Material Part 2

I came across a site that claimed all these things that the church is supposed to be keeping a secret. It is entitled, "Things mormons won't tell you". Almost all of it is half-truths, sensationalizing or plain nonsense. Yet I want to present how simple it is to answer these claims for any that are unsure.

I'm starting with Part 2 and will put Part 1 on next, so that it will read in order when both posts are done.

18. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their prophet Joseph Smith was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism.

Claims about people when they are dead are meaningless. Piles of people say he was a great guy, and piles of people say he wasn't. As we weren't there to make our own judgement it is futile discussion. Many people were paid enormous sums of money, for the time, to write testimonies against Joseph Smith. This is not denied by either side. Half of them probably never even met him.

19. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world", a practice forbidden in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12.)

Nonsense. Some members mention isolated experiences of such. But it isn't a promoted idea or to be done on a regular basis. And therefore it doesn't fit under the command made in Deuteronomy, which involves a habit of communication. I have never communicated nor sort to communicate with any of my dead relatives.

20. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that there are many accounts of Joseph Smith's first vision besides the one they present to you, and all are different

There are 4 accounts he made. The fact that all are different is evidence of them being authentic, not visa-versa. If I tell people of a past experience, some person who may have heard it before can sometimes say that I didn't mention that last time. Joseph Smith could only say the same thing if it was rehearsed.

21. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their secret temple oaths are based on the Scottish Rite Masons.

He means there is a relationship between ALL masonic rites and some of the ceremony done in the temple; not just some Scottish ones. The masons claim that their rites come from Solomon's temple and have been handed down in perfect order. Thus it is only obvious that the Old Testament parts of our temple ordinances are similar in places.

22. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that before 1978 they considered the Negro race inferior, and even one drop of Negro blood prevented a person from entering their priesthood.

Those spirits which became Negros chose not to have the priesthood in the pre-existence, because having it would put them in a position to be able to become Sons of Perdition (the worst of worst eternal ends). However they became members through baptism and received the Holy Ghost. If they choose to move in a different direction after death this is their decision also. The spirits who chose this have all come to earth, and so this doesn't pertain to those born now.

In regard claiming we don't tell investigators; obviously negro investigators of the time were informed. It wasn't relevant to anyone else; and there is far enough to teach investigators without getting on to things that aren't necessary for baptismal commitment.

As to us considering Negros inferior I will quote the book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price (translated by Joseph Smith) in regard a Negro named Pharaoh.

"Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, ... and also of Noah, his father [in the sense that he descended from him], who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom ..." (Abraham 1:26)

A wise, righteous, just and blessed negro.

23. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they expect Christ to return to their temple in Missouri, but they haven't built the temple He's supposed to return to, because they don't own the property. (It is owned by the "Temple Lot Mormons" who have plans of their own, and won't let the Salt Lake City group buy it).

Once again, in all fairness to those members who feel that the promise in regard Missouri has passed because the Saints failed to live up to God's laws, this is only accepted by some members as still to happen.

Yet for the defence of those members who continue to believe this I would say, so Christ won't be having his second coming tomorrow? Oh, and I was so looking forward to it. Are we serious? Things change.

While I, personally, feel that the Missouri promise may still stand, I'm uncertain.

24. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they consider the Bible to be untrustworthy and full of errors.

"Full of errors" is a ridiculous exaggeration. If we believed that it wouldn't be part of our Scriptures. However we do tell investigators that errors do exist due to transcribing errors and deliberate changes made by Catholic priests in the ancient texts. Also debate exists in regard translation from one language to another. These things are well established facts, known to all Biblical scholars of all faiths.

25. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that Jesus' death on the cross only partially saves the believer.

Actually we do teach this. Christ suffered far more in the garden of Gethsemane, where his sweat was great drops of blood, than on the cross. An observation of the Old Testament sacrifices show that there was to be 2 sacrifices done by the Savior. One (sacrifice for each person's sins separately) was to be done outside the temple but inside Jerusalem (the Garden of Gethsemane) and the other was to be made for all Israel outside Jerusalem (the cross).

In regard Jesus Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, the Bible tells us _

"And there appeared an angel to him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground." Luke 22:43-44

Here, in the Garden of Gethsemane, we find that Christ required an angel to come down and strengthen him. We note that it goes on to say that Christ was in "agony" in the garden. In spite of the enormous agony of dying on a cross Christ didn't require an angel to strengthen him. Nor did Christ suffer so much upon the cross that he sweat blood.

In the Garden of Gethsemane Christ suffered for sins. As his body was a mess after suffering for our sins, it was time for him to die and become resurrected. So he, effectively, paid the price of death for our sins upon the cross. This made the resurrection possible for all others also.

26. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that according to Anton Lavey's Satanic Bible, the demon god of the living dead is called "Mormo". Is it just a coincidence that the Mormons are so concerned with the dead?

One reason why I haven't told anyone is that I don't read the Satanic Bible to know. Now you mention it I have noticed that the Bible talks of the "Anti-Christ." Well.... I'm shocked! The word Anti-Christ includes the word "Christ." And the name Saul, the King of Israel whom God cursed, was the former name of the apostle Paul and still sounds similar to Paul. What will we all do????

What had this guy been smoking?

27. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that on their Salt Lake City Temple they prominently display an upside-down star which is a Satanic symbol known as the Goat's head. Why?

Mormons don't tell you because almost all members wouldn't know that Satan had stolen it.

Satan is constantly setting up things that mimic what God does, but are negative versions. Note that God set up sacrifices on alters. And Satan mimicked it with human sacrifices on alters. This didn't make God a follower of Satan. God said his firstborn would be the sacrifice and that's what the Israelites put into the fires of Molech. God set up a priesthood and Satan got pagans to make a priesthood. These sorts of things are to be anticipated.

28. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they believe the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.

Firstly this statement is false. Adam didn't come down with several wives. There was just, initially, Adam and Eve. What Brigham Young said (and this was his personal opinion, not Scripture) was that Adam came down with Eve, who was one of his Celestial wives. If I now owned a candy store, I could say that when I was little I came to my shop often. No one concludes that I mean it was my shop when I was little. Nor was Eve one of Adam's Celestial wives at the time of him coming down. They didn't even know the difference between good and evil. She was one of the women who eventually became one of his Celestial wives, was what Brigham was implying.

29. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they believe the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.

Overall, who cares? Why would we bother putting this in the missionary discussions? Its just information that is trivial. It obviously interested Joseph, so he was informed and concluded that someone else may wish to know. Obviously Gabriel came down to earth as somebody, as we all do.

30. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their Prophet Joseph Smith prophesied falsely many times. For example, he foretold the second coming of Christ for 1891. The Bible teaches that one false prophecy puts the prophet under death sentence. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).

The assumption that Joseph Smith made from his prophesy was incorrect. But the prophesy itself hasn't been shown to be incorrect because he didn't live to that age. The proviso given was "IF" he lived to be that age.

The same could be said of the prophesy by Caiaphas in the New Testament. He prophesied in regard Christ dying for that nation. And then he went out to have him killed. This didn't make Caiaphas a false prophet. John clearly states in regard Caiaphas, "being high priest at that time, prophesied." Yet Caiaphas's conclusion was that he was to kill Christ for the good of all (John 11:49-53).

31. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their Prophet Joseph Smith did not die as a martyr as they claim, but was killed during a gun battle in which he himself killed two men and wounded a third.

It is not a pre-requisite for a martyr that he didn't try to defend himself. A martyr is someone who dies for his cause. Those men came for the purpose of killing Joseph Smith because of his religious affiliation. Had he not taught the things he did they would not have come to kill him. And so he died a martyr.

32. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in which they brutally murdered an innocent wagon train of settlers, of over one hundred men, women, and most of the children, traveling through Utah.

Actually I've mentioned this to investigators many times. That way I can give both sides of the argument rather than just this distorted one.

This situation is a classic example of why I'm against position worship within the church. It seems a particular bishop got over zealous and fearful in regard some former Missourians (who were involved in killing, raping and pillaging the members when in Missouri) travelling through Utah in a wagon train which included others. In order to keep them from attacking his area he had his members dress up as Indians and attack the wagon train. It seems that he became fearful of discovery and decided to kill all witnesses. But some of those involved later confessed their actions.

It does stand as a sad action performed by some church members and a warning not to just follow any church authority blindly.

33. MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that Joseph Smith taught that there were inhabitants on the moon, and Brigham Young taught there were inhabitants on the sun as well!

These ideas came from a scientist of the time. Isaiah may have believed that the earth was flat. That doesn't make him a false prophet either. Being a prophet doesn't make a person know everything. Human errors will still exist.


Anonymous said...

You're justifications for some of these are pretty poor. Very irrational.

Doug Towers said...


I always find it amazing when someone says something like that, yet presents no evidence to support the claim.

You must be a believer in theory science and/or a Protestant minister, to conclude that you have presented a serious response to my post.