Tuesday, September 30, 2008

The Rapture - Part II

The whole concept of a rapture comes from an interpretation of a prophecy of Daniel's. Its in Daniel chapter 9 verses 24-27.

Note that a "septet" means "seven" (i.e. seven days - a week). The angel used the sevens concept deliberately for symbolic reasons rather than just giving numbers (e.g. seven "sevens" rather than just saying 49).

"Seventy septets are decreed on your people and on your holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem to the anointed one, the Prince, shall be seven septets, and sixty-two septets. It shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troubled times. And after the sixty-two septets shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and the war shall last until the end of the desolations that are determined. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one septet: and in the midst of the septet he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. From an extreme edge shall come an abomination, one that makes desolate, even to the full end of that determined, shall wrath be poured out on the desolate."

Seemingly endless interpretations of this prophecy exist. A serious problem is that historians can't definitely prove dates of when kings reigned. The same problem exists with Jewish history. Along with this there is question of just how we classify this command going forth to restore Jerusalem (as several commands went forth). This shouldn't have presented a problem to the people at the time, who would know the history first hand, rather than by interpretations of sometimes partially damaged tablets or conflicting written histories. Thus the interpretation of events referred to in this prophecy are subject to wide opinion now. It would be an enormous post all of its own to go through all the major opinions available.

Reading through the various opinions makes me think strongly on the advice in 2 Peter 1:20-21 about not making private interpretations of prophesies, but to use the Holy Ghost in such things instead. But I will share two of these interpretations. One that shows how the rapture concept has been connected with this prophecy, and one that opposes it. I'll begin with the latter as it is by far the more logical interpretation, because it doesn't make an unspecified interval, proposed by the former.

We have 69 (7 + 62) "sevens" prophesied before Christ(?) turns up. 69 X 7 = 483 days. It is presented that the Bible states that we should take a year for a day in prophecy (Ezek 4:6). Therefore we have 483 years. But it must be remembered that the Roman calendar didn't have a year 0. Thus we go from the year 1 BC to the year 1 AD.

It proposes that the beginning of the seventy septets occurred in 455 BC (the decree of Artaxerxes in his 20th year for Nehemiah). The 70th septet, therefore, begins in 29 AD when Christ began his ministry (according to the supporters of this interpretation). In 33 AD, 3.5 years (midway) into the 70th septet of years, the Messiah atoned for sins, thus causing the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, as prophesied.

However exponents of the rapture concept propose a different starting year and that the last septet of the 70 septets hasn't occurred yet. They refer to the statement, "And after the sixty-two septets shall the anointed one be cut off," proposing that this means EXACTLY at the end of the sixty-two septets (which come after the first 7 septets, thus equalling 69 septets) Christ would die, not during the 70th septet. This leaves us with a seven year period spare. They then propose that this 70th septet hasn't occurred yet.

They interpret events as such:
(the "sevens" are referred to as "weeks" in this translation)

A. Daniel 9:25 Jerusalem construction declared:
"Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem"
B. Daniel 9:25 Prophecy of the Messiah:
unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:
C. Daniel 9:25 Jerusalem Construction happening:
it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
D. Daniel 9:26 Messiah dies:
And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing:
E. Daniel 9:26 Jerusalem Destroyed by Romans 70 AD:
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
F. Daniel 9:27 Messiah has pre-rapture of righteous as 7 years of devastation begins:
"And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" - they relate this to the prophesied evil beasts referred to in the Book of Revelation that will come before Christ's coming, saying that they will destroy the temple that will soon be rebuilt in Jerusalem.
G. Daniel 9:27 Jerusalem Destroyed again before Christ's second (third, according to the theory) coming:
"and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that makes desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate."

However there are flaws in this latter interpretation. First, its whole basis for proposing a difference between the two mentions of Jerusalem being destroyed is that there are two mentions: Proposing they can't be the same destruction therefore: That we must read it as a continual story without repetition. Yet they are proposing a repetition of the things relative to the Messiah (Christ) and the sixty-two "sevens." Second, this text has Jerusalem destroyed completely the second time. Yet Zechariah tells us that an entire one-third of the population of Jerusalem will still be alive when Christ arrives for his coming (Zech 13:8). Third, it proposes an unstated interval of nearly 2,000 years - an amazing lot of supposition.

But what scripture texts stand as opposition to the idea?

"I don't pray that you should take them [his followers] out of the world, but that you would keep them for the evil one." John 17:15

This states that Christ isn't into removing his followers from the earth as an answer to coming problems.

"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." 1 Thess 4:15

So those who are alive won't be raptured before the dead. Note that he states "we". Therefore he wasn't anticipating any early rapture where they would be taken before the resurrection of those already "fallen asleep" (dead).

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thess 4:16-17

This not only states that the living won't precede the dead in being raptured, but that the dead will actually go first. Again note that he says "we". So this confirms that he didn't anticipated some early rapture.

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matt 16:27

Here Christ is saying that it is at his coming that every man shall be rewarded, nothing about some being rewarded years before.

When giving the parable of the sower Christ says in regard the wicked and the righteous_

"Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, gather together the tares first, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

This presents that Christ will destroy the wicked BEFORE gathering the righteous. It also presents that both should grow TOGETHER (i.e. not be separated until the final harvest).

Matthew chapter 24 contains signs of Christ's second coming. It talks of all the wars, pestilences and earthquakes we should anticipate. It talks of the "abomination that makes desolate" (or "abomination of desolation"). It talks of great tribulation.

Yet before it gets to the tribulation and abomination of desolation to come, it states,

"But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." (verse 13)

This suggests that the person is already a believer and needs to endure through the whole thing until the end - not to some pre-rapture.

While the idea of avoiding the worst of it sounds wonderful, the Scriptures don't support this concept. Not only isn't it supported, but they oppose it. It just comes out as another wishful thinking doctrine: A "wouldn't it be nice if."


Anonymous said...

In all that we believe, remember Rapture and the Quickening are two different transformation and transport goals for Planet Evacuation in this era of increasing predestined trouble.

A hidden truth of the Rapture is also found in 1st Thessalonians verse 16 & 17, tells how a specific Upper Regional Satellite & Relay Host referred to as ‘Lord God’, will be visibly seen at the same time as a smaller Satellite Relay Host. This Foremost and most powerful Relay Host will be positioned just below their alignment’s Parenting Mother Sphere, and is in their own Enclosed Area of Open Space referred to as a ‘Heaven’. It will be this Foremost Relay Host which will sound off of a specific group of frequency tones which opens a linking portal passage.

This spiraling portal tunnel will extend down through space and time, leading to a second in place yet smaller Regional Satellite Host referred to as a Lord Host. This second in Place Relay Host is the Central Power Source to that Tribal Colony which inhibits their own smaller Enclosed Area of Open Space referred to as a ‘Heaven’.

This portal passage will then reach all the way down unto an opening wormhole which will be seen from this planet.

But not only will a people of Faith from the surface of this planet be taken aboard city size Mobile Crafts, and the coming fleet of 144,000 in rapture at this time, but the next verse tells how they will be taken up together with those celestial colonies in wait, which are concealed in transparent heavens of enclosed areas of space which float as a glass bubble in Earth’s upper skies. All spoken of here will be taken to meet this Celestial Lord Host and His accompanied Star Fleet, in that open atmosphere of His Heaven. Image that many such heavens of enclosed areas of space are established of worlds similar to what is known as the Jetsons TV show; and imagine many others to be established as enclosed Flat Land Islands of ever flourishing rain forests, which were referred to as Gardens of Eden.

Because of this Positive Truth, Earthen Humanity must grow past those childish thoughts of bird wings on the back of flying angels coming to gather them for rapture. We should now heed visual perceptions of Winged Crafts of Star Ships in their design of Superior Technology, which many of Angels in ancient scriptures actually were.

1st Thessalonians verse 16 & 17 ‘scripture’s metaphor translations’;

Lord= Regional Governing Satellite Power Source
Heaven= an upper open area of an enclosed pocket of space
Shout = loud atmospheric noise
With = at the same time as
Voice= vibration of a composed arrangement of frequencies sounding off
Archangel= First Regional Satellite Cherub Host
trump = highest held portal opening frequency tuner
God = A Head Governing Power Source

Using correct translation of specific Words of metaphor, it has been allowed me to tell the people these things;

Be safe, be well, beware
281-440-1918 …. 15806 Winding Moss-B …. Houston Texas 77068

Doug Towers said...


Some interesting feelings expressed here.

I have had some experiences that I think may be of some help to you in your further studies.

I have had personal conversation with God the Father (I was seeing his spirit) face-to-face. I have had the same type (though not as many in number) with the Lord (Jesus Christ).

There wasn't a mention of this type of concept you believe in. It is a common concept to believe in some kind of God from another planet. In fact we also believe in such. However most LDS (who aren't caught up in the theory science religion) believe in the Scriptures, as stated. Through my discussions with God and guideance of the Holy Ghost I have come to know that we are far more capable than your concept allows for. Many of us have amazing (presently dormant due to lack of belief) abilities.

God is capable of maintaining himself in space without superficial means. And we will be too.

I, too, have had memories of the pre-existence, where I was only a spirit and intelligence. But we didn't have any space ships etc as you have come to believe.

However you have obviously put a lot of effort into your thoughts. I hope mine may add further insite as you continue.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing your concept. It reminded of those who chose to remain Spirit Beings and not partake in the embodiedment of physical forms. Without doubt there are many High Celestial Nations such as these, just as there are the immortals who chose to periodically exist in physical forms in their different journeys. Thanks again

Anthony E. Larson said...

As an armchair mythologist and catastrophist, I must suggest another possibility for Daniel's vision. What he is reporting is cultural tradition, already ancient in his day, of events that happened in the heavens. Looking for a literal fulfillment in subsequent events is a common error among exegets of prophecy. While you may not see this interpretation anywhere else, it is nonetheless valid. Like John's Revelation, Daniel's and Ezekiel's visions are rehearsals of traditional stories of events seen in Earth's early heavens. For more information on this and other subjects connected with the symbolism of prophecy, I suggest you visit: