During the Dark Ages the Catholic church presented the idea of Satan and his followers being red with pointy tails, pitchforks and two horns on their heads. They were made to look as scary as possible. Further, they were presented as being there to roast people over a raging fire. Yet what do the Scriptures tell us?
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 12:7-9
So here we have Satan leading his group of "angels". And we have Michael (an angel of God) leading his group of "angels". So whatever an "angel" looks like both must be the same. Can we imagine that God's angels are red with pitchforks etc.? I don't think so. These angels appeared to servants of God throughout the ages.
Then we have the conversation where Satan appears to Moses after the Lord did _
"Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit has not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is your glory, for it is darkness to me? And I can judge between you and God; for God said to me: Worship God, for him only shall you serve." Moses 1:15
So here we have Moses saying that Satan's glory is darkness instead of light.
Further understanding comes from the following verses _
"And now, when Moses had said these words, Satan cried with a loud voice, and ranted upon the earth, and commanded, saying: I am the Only Begotten, worship me. And it came to pass that Moses began to fear exceedingly; and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. Nevertheless, calling upon God, he received strength, and he commanded, saying: Depart from me, Satan, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of glory." Moses 1:19-20
A couple of things stand out here. Firstly I was brought up to believe that Satan was intelligent. But here we have Satan throwing a tantrum and thudding the ground because he can't get his way. But also note that because Moses then began to fear that Satan suddenly had power over him. It wasn't until he called upon God to help him that Satan's power over him ended. So Satan's power over us can only be felt if we turn to lust, anger, hatred, fear, greed and any of those darkside feelings.
Matthew quotes Christ on 3 occasions saying how that wicked church members will be cast into "outer darkness" (Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30) in the final judgement. Yet Christ also refers to "hell" as being like a fire that all the wicked must suffer. Alma points out that this is just a way to explain it and that it is only "as" a lake of fire and brimstone; there is no real fire (Alma 12:17).
This helps us understand why Christ refers to people having to suffer a fire and yet be in darkness. It also tosses out the concept of red devils in fire.
So what does Satan look like? He looks like any other spirit. He has two arms and two legs etc. The difference is that although you can see his spirit body's matter, all is darkness around and through him. His thinking is totally distorted and he seeks evil continually. He is miserable but certainly would argue otherwise. His only power is that which comes from your incorrect emotions (as we see from the Moses incident).
Tuesday, April 02, 2013
Friday, March 15, 2013
Answering Anti-Mormon Stuff - The Trinity
As I stated last time only the Standard Works are Scripture to us. None of these quotes of past GAs in the church are anything more than their personal opinion, and have not been sustained by the church membership as revelations from God. Note the following from a church President, made when he was the church President.
President Harold B. Lee in a European area conference:
"If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth." The First Area General Conference for Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and Spain of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in Munich Germany, August 24-26, 1973, with Reports and Discourses, 69.
Now to the claims of a Biblical Trinity.
Firstly we have a non-descript attempt at explaining what God is, other than to say that he reveals himself as 3 different people.
Then we have a quote from Matthew which doesn't disagree with Mormon doctrine in the slightest. We also believe in those 3 separate people.
He denies Modalism yet he also believes there are 3 beings, not separated but as one being - sounds like Modalism to me.
Next he quotes Philippians 2:11 _
"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
He mentions that this demonstrates that God is the Father. Yet it additionally mentions that Jesus is classified as "Lord." What is more it is stating that Jesus does things to glorify God. This is declaring that Jesus isn't God in the ultimate sense, but Heavenly Father is.
Next he quotes John 20:28 _
"And Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God."
We also know that Jesus has acted as a God to this planet in behalf of the Father. Yet as John 5:19-20 says, "Then answered Jesus and said to them, surely, surely, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel."
So Jesus is saying that he needs instructions from God the Father as to what to do.
Additionally "You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come again to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
This is saying that the Father is greater than the Jesus Christ. So if Jesus is God in the ultimate sense then how can anything be greater than Jesus is?
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13
This doesn't explain whether it is talking of Christ appearing as "the great God" or Heavenly Father appearing with Christ. So its interpretation is arguable.
2 Peter 1:1 also suffers from this same problem.
"But to the Son he said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:8
These are the words that God the Father said to his Son. Let's look at some verses in the same chapter also on the same subject.
"Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Hebrews 1:4-5
In other words God made Christ at some point. And also he gave him a more excellent inheritance. Now how could he need to do that if Jesus was already God the ultimate and had no beginning as a God?
Next note _
"You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows." Hebrews 1:9
So because Christ demonstrated that he loved righteousness more than his fellow spirits Jesus Christ's God gave him a special position. It doesn't sould anything like a trinity to me.
"See, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." Matthew 1:23
We don't doubt that Jesus is the God appointed to this earth, as he earned his position by his righteousness. Yet Jesus himself is said to have grown "in wisdom" and "in favor with God" over time (Luke 2:52).
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
We've already looked at why he is called God. The term "everlasting Father" can create some confusion. We know he is the Father of the creation. He directed the creation. Secondly he is the Father in the sense that he did the works of the Father.
"For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:9
Let's look at the next verse after this one _
"And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power." Colossians 2:10
The word "fulness" in verse 9 comes from the Greek word "pleroo", meaning to fill up something. The word "complete" in verse 10 comes from the Greek word "pleroma" referring to what is filled.
So verses 9 and 10 are saying that because Christ is filled with all the qualities of the Godhead, the church members in him are also filled with this fulness. This doesn't make them all God as well. This wasn't the meaning of verse 9.
Quoting John 1:1 makes an interesting problem in regard who's version of the Bibles in print we read. Additionally to that it depends on whether we look at the idea that it should be interpreted in symbolic form (as is often argued in Protestant churches). But let's look at the most common Protestant interpretation _
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
Well that sounds totally confusing: A word WITH God but who IS God. Yet if we read this a common Protestant way it has the Father needing to have the Son because otherwise he'll be missing the word.
However some point out that the text can equally be translated "and the word was a God". This would make it consistant with the rest of the New Testament that rejects a trinity.
We don't deny that the Holy Spirit acts in behalf of the Father and the Son.
In regard the next line of quotes we don't disagree that Jesus Christ is the God conducting all things pertaining to this planet. He is the only God for here and beside him there is no God.
It must be understood that the Old Testament was given to a hard hearted people who still wouldn't follow God even after seeing miracles. Jesus wasn't going to confuse the issue by explaining that he actually had a Father in Old Testament times. Even in the New Testament to the Jews he still stuck to the Law given to Moses. It was only when people came out to listen to him to learn that he gave instructions such as the Sermon on the Mount. Here he expressed that God was OUR Father. He also explained that God was quite understandable.
In regard the trinity let's look at the following quote from Luke _
"And Jesus said to him, Why do you call me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." Luke 18:19
Jesus is declared that he is not "good" (whatever that meant in Hebrew), and that only God is. So how can he be God?
Jesus prayed to God on his knees and in regard to his apostles and those who believed their words Jesus said _
"That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me." John 17:21
So Jesus is asking the Father that in the same way he and the Father are one, that all these others may also be one in them. So if we are to believe this was a trinity, it now has thousands of additional people in that one God. Obviously he wasn't really saying he is one in substance with God anymore than the apostles were one.
I would pose the question to trinitarians in regard their god; how can they regard Christ suffered on the cross since he was also supposedly in heaven with God at the same time? Or why did God need an angel to come and give him strength (Luke 22:43)? And how could part of himself leave himself (Matt 27:46)? Why was he praying to himself, didn't he know what himself was going to say (John chapter 17)?
The trinitarian idea has more Biblical holes than a sponge.
Friday, February 22, 2013
What Does the Bible Say About Praying to Mary?
Though I was basically brought up going to various Protestant churches, my mother had been brought up with a Catholic mother. We went into open Catholic churches during the week when out in the city.
My mother would go in and dip her hand in the "holy water" (which was in a receptacle just inside the door) and cross herself. We then would walk down the center isle and she would come to the pew she was thinking of going into and she would then kneel and cross herself again. Then she would go into the isle for the pew. Upon deciding where to set herself she would again kneel and cross herself. She would then pray and pondered on things.
I looked around and noticed women with beads in their hands mumbling things. I asked my mother about what they were doing. She explained that they were rosary beads. That they were going through them until they got to the cross at the end.
It all left me wondering about why they did it and my mother didn't. But it wasn't any major concern to me.
I finally got to ask my mother what they were saying. The beads are made up of a series of 10 beads followed by a larger bead, then ten more beads. There are five sets of 10 beads. The ones I'd like to discuss is what is said for the 5 sets of 10 beads. The person holds on to a bead and says the following as a prayer _
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"
The idea of this chant is that if you get Mary to speak to God (a part of whom they believe to be Jesus Christ) on your behalf, he is more likely to listen to her.
But is this idea correct?
Let's look at some of things in the Bible that demonstrate Christ's perception of this _
"And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bare you, and the paps which you did sucked. But he said, Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Luke 11:27-28
So Christ has said that those who hear the word of God and keep it are more blessed than his mother's womb or paps. So he doesn't appear to have some strange affiliation with his mother beyond the usual.
And note the following _
"While he yet talked to the people, look, his mother and his brothers stood outside, desiring to speak with him. Then one said to him, Look, your mother and your brothers stand outside, desiring to speak with you. But he answered and said to him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brothers? And he stretched forward his hand toward his disciples, and said, Look my mother and my brothers! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matthew 12:46-50
So this is saying that any female who lives the teachings of Christ is considered a mother by him. Therefore if it was acceptable to God to pray to Mary we would be able to pray to these other women to talk to him also.
In regard the ten repetitions of the "Hail Mary" Jesus said _
"But when you pray, don't use vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Don't you be like them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him." Matthew 6:7-8
Therefore Christ is saying not to repeat prayers over and over. He says that the Father already knows what you want to pray about, so it is pointless repeating it.
Now what does Christ say about who to pray to? Does he say to pray to Mary or Peter (perhaps)?
"And in that day you shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say to you, Whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you." John 16:23
Christ has promised that sincerely asking Heavenly Father through his name will bring answers. No mention of praying to Mary.
It should be pointed out that many say, "I prayed for this and didn't get it." The request must be sincere for the right response. Also the thing the person is asking for may not be the best for some or all concerned. It is interesting to note that Joseph was sold into slavery and then put in prison; yet these were for his good. I'm sure he didn't appreciate the experience at the time. But he came out a better man for it. His faith persisted in spite of these setbacks.
Remember to pray to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. And say the things you mean. And only say them once.
My mother would go in and dip her hand in the "holy water" (which was in a receptacle just inside the door) and cross herself. We then would walk down the center isle and she would come to the pew she was thinking of going into and she would then kneel and cross herself again. Then she would go into the isle for the pew. Upon deciding where to set herself she would again kneel and cross herself. She would then pray and pondered on things.
I looked around and noticed women with beads in their hands mumbling things. I asked my mother about what they were doing. She explained that they were rosary beads. That they were going through them until they got to the cross at the end.
It all left me wondering about why they did it and my mother didn't. But it wasn't any major concern to me.
I finally got to ask my mother what they were saying. The beads are made up of a series of 10 beads followed by a larger bead, then ten more beads. There are five sets of 10 beads. The ones I'd like to discuss is what is said for the 5 sets of 10 beads. The person holds on to a bead and says the following as a prayer _
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"
The idea of this chant is that if you get Mary to speak to God (a part of whom they believe to be Jesus Christ) on your behalf, he is more likely to listen to her.
But is this idea correct?
Let's look at some of things in the Bible that demonstrate Christ's perception of this _
"And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bare you, and the paps which you did sucked. But he said, Yes rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Luke 11:27-28
So Christ has said that those who hear the word of God and keep it are more blessed than his mother's womb or paps. So he doesn't appear to have some strange affiliation with his mother beyond the usual.
And note the following _
"While he yet talked to the people, look, his mother and his brothers stood outside, desiring to speak with him. Then one said to him, Look, your mother and your brothers stand outside, desiring to speak with you. But he answered and said to him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brothers? And he stretched forward his hand toward his disciples, and said, Look my mother and my brothers! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matthew 12:46-50
So this is saying that any female who lives the teachings of Christ is considered a mother by him. Therefore if it was acceptable to God to pray to Mary we would be able to pray to these other women to talk to him also.
In regard the ten repetitions of the "Hail Mary" Jesus said _
"But when you pray, don't use vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Don't you be like them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him." Matthew 6:7-8
Therefore Christ is saying not to repeat prayers over and over. He says that the Father already knows what you want to pray about, so it is pointless repeating it.
Now what does Christ say about who to pray to? Does he say to pray to Mary or Peter (perhaps)?
"And in that day you shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say to you, Whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you." John 16:23
Christ has promised that sincerely asking Heavenly Father through his name will bring answers. No mention of praying to Mary.
It should be pointed out that many say, "I prayed for this and didn't get it." The request must be sincere for the right response. Also the thing the person is asking for may not be the best for some or all concerned. It is interesting to note that Joseph was sold into slavery and then put in prison; yet these were for his good. I'm sure he didn't appreciate the experience at the time. But he came out a better man for it. His faith persisted in spite of these setbacks.
Remember to pray to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. And say the things you mean. And only say them once.
Sunday, January 27, 2013
Examination of Another Anti-Mormon Site
The following is from a site that purports to be showing that our doctrine doesn't fit with the Bible. But let's first look at these claims and then examine them.
This is the first subject he rose. I'll get to others in further posts.
Firstly I should state that twice a year we have general conferences. Every member in the world has a gathering where they live. At those conferences members get to sustain what is Scripture for us all. We ALL sustain only 4 books. Those books are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Anything else is merely the opinion of an individual. We don't hold every word of Apostles or Presidents of the church to be the mind and will of God, unless those particular words are sustained as such. So whether or not some of these other quotes are generally believed that doesn't make them the opinion of the church (i.e. Latter-Day Saints) unless they are supported from the Scriptures. I would be doing an injustice to other members to feel that I must explain these opinions as if all must share them.
The only Scriptural text that has been quoted is that from Nephi. If I said to a Protestant that any church which isn't the church of Christ, yet posed itself as one, was evil, the majority would agree with Nephi. I don't see any problem with that statement.
So now I will turn to what the writer terms "Biblical Christianity," and we can see if it is. Does the Bible present the ideas claimed here?
His first claim is that there is "an everlasting Gospel which has endured for 'all generations' -never to disappear from the earth." Is that the truth? All generations? The Bible doesn't say that the people at the Tower of Babel had the Gospel. A missing generation? The only time the Bible mentions that the Gospel was preached for the first 4 thousand years was to the Israelites by Moses. And it says they rejected it. Protestantism doesn't support an "all generations" Gospel.
Interestingly we are one of the few churches which supports the fact that the gospel went into hiding and was not destroyed. We know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was always existent, from Adam onward. We know that the apostle John lived through all those years (as Christ prophesied he would) and turning up to re-establish the church organisation through Joseph Smith. John wasn't the only translated being either.
The apostle John prophesied that the "woman" (which many Protestants accept as being the church of Jesus Christ) went into hiding. Then she eventually came out of hiding (having never being destroyed by the "gates of hell" MATTHEW 16:18, JUDE 3).
In regard Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; These are stating that there were people in the church at the time that were trying to teach false doctrines. He is saying to stick by what they have been taught by him. So the question is, is it some Protestant church, the Catholic church or Church of Jesus Christ of LDS that is teaching what Paul originally taught? As it is us then those other churches are teaching another Gospel.
In regard Hebrews 12:28 if we read it as the writer wishes us to then I've answered that point already. However I tend to see the "kingdom" referred to here as being our inheritance in heaven rather than earth.
1 TIMOTHY 3:15 has nothing to do with supporting any of his ideas.
The question now becomes, was an apostasy and false doctrine foretold to enter into the church, in the Bible?
The writer has quoted two instances of such - Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. These demonstrate that there were those changing the Gospel back then.
Also we have _
1 Corinthians 1:10-13 "Now I urge you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you says, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
This is demonstrating that they all were divided with different gospels at the time they had apostles among them. So how much worse would it have got when there wasn't any?
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "Now we urge you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, that you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
So Paul is saying that they should not expect Christ to come at their time, because a falling away had to come first. Obviously it isn't talking about just some individuals, as that always happens. He is talking of an entire falling away.
Acts 20:29-30 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."
So there were to come many teaching another Gospel in the church. These drew many to follow their ways.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables."
Paul is saying that the time will come when the church will only have ministers and priests that teach what they want to hear.
2 Peter 3:15-16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."
Here it is speaking of those in the church that are twisting the scriptures to their own destruction. Unfortunately they pass these ideas onto others.
1 Corinthians 11:17-18 "Now in this that I declare to you I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when you come together in the church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it."
More talk of divisions within the church.
Titus 1:10-11 "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they should not, for filthy money's sake."
So this is presenting that many (mostly those who believed in circumcision) were converting entire families to false doctrines. These were doing it as paid ministers. Which, of course, rules out our missionaries, as they are not paid.
The Bible has demonstrated that an apostasy, of the church, from the Gospel would occur. And stated that it had already started.
This is the first subject he rose. I'll get to others in further posts.
Firstly I should state that twice a year we have general conferences. Every member in the world has a gathering where they live. At those conferences members get to sustain what is Scripture for us all. We ALL sustain only 4 books. Those books are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Anything else is merely the opinion of an individual. We don't hold every word of Apostles or Presidents of the church to be the mind and will of God, unless those particular words are sustained as such. So whether or not some of these other quotes are generally believed that doesn't make them the opinion of the church (i.e. Latter-Day Saints) unless they are supported from the Scriptures. I would be doing an injustice to other members to feel that I must explain these opinions as if all must share them.
The only Scriptural text that has been quoted is that from Nephi. If I said to a Protestant that any church which isn't the church of Christ, yet posed itself as one, was evil, the majority would agree with Nephi. I don't see any problem with that statement.
So now I will turn to what the writer terms "Biblical Christianity," and we can see if it is. Does the Bible present the ideas claimed here?
His first claim is that there is "an everlasting Gospel which has endured for 'all generations' -never to disappear from the earth." Is that the truth? All generations? The Bible doesn't say that the people at the Tower of Babel had the Gospel. A missing generation? The only time the Bible mentions that the Gospel was preached for the first 4 thousand years was to the Israelites by Moses. And it says they rejected it. Protestantism doesn't support an "all generations" Gospel.
Interestingly we are one of the few churches which supports the fact that the gospel went into hiding and was not destroyed. We know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was always existent, from Adam onward. We know that the apostle John lived through all those years (as Christ prophesied he would) and turning up to re-establish the church organisation through Joseph Smith. John wasn't the only translated being either.
The apostle John prophesied that the "woman" (which many Protestants accept as being the church of Jesus Christ) went into hiding. Then she eventually came out of hiding (having never being destroyed by the "gates of hell" MATTHEW 16:18, JUDE 3).
In regard Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; These are stating that there were people in the church at the time that were trying to teach false doctrines. He is saying to stick by what they have been taught by him. So the question is, is it some Protestant church, the Catholic church or Church of Jesus Christ of LDS that is teaching what Paul originally taught? As it is us then those other churches are teaching another Gospel.
In regard Hebrews 12:28 if we read it as the writer wishes us to then I've answered that point already. However I tend to see the "kingdom" referred to here as being our inheritance in heaven rather than earth.
1 TIMOTHY 3:15 has nothing to do with supporting any of his ideas.
The question now becomes, was an apostasy and false doctrine foretold to enter into the church, in the Bible?
The writer has quoted two instances of such - Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. These demonstrate that there were those changing the Gospel back then.
Also we have _
1 Corinthians 1:10-13 "Now I urge you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you says, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
This is demonstrating that they all were divided with different gospels at the time they had apostles among them. So how much worse would it have got when there wasn't any?
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "Now we urge you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, that you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
So Paul is saying that they should not expect Christ to come at their time, because a falling away had to come first. Obviously it isn't talking about just some individuals, as that always happens. He is talking of an entire falling away.
Acts 20:29-30 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."
So there were to come many teaching another Gospel in the church. These drew many to follow their ways.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables."
Paul is saying that the time will come when the church will only have ministers and priests that teach what they want to hear.
2 Peter 3:15-16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."
Here it is speaking of those in the church that are twisting the scriptures to their own destruction. Unfortunately they pass these ideas onto others.
1 Corinthians 11:17-18 "Now in this that I declare to you I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when you come together in the church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it."
More talk of divisions within the church.
Titus 1:10-11 "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they should not, for filthy money's sake."
So this is presenting that many (mostly those who believed in circumcision) were converting entire families to false doctrines. These were doing it as paid ministers. Which, of course, rules out our missionaries, as they are not paid.
The Bible has demonstrated that an apostasy, of the church, from the Gospel would occur. And stated that it had already started.
Saturday, January 12, 2013
Speculation and Deep Doctrine
First we should look at what deep doctine actually is. It is often associated with things we don't know. But its true meaning would be better defined as things that are beyond that being delivered in Gospel Doctrine classes.
We have a standard doctrine that is being taught in Gospel Doctrine classes. But many recognise the importance of developing our knowledge beyond the milk. They will attempt to get the conversation in the GD class to advance beyond where it is. But this will fail because the reason it is where it is, is because the class, as a whole, don't wish to advance beyond where they are.
The same applies to priesthood classes. As I hear the questions given and the answers I feel like someone has put 5 cents in the slot and pushed the button for answer number 49. "Why should we do Home Teaching, brethren?" "That's right, because Christ said to." That's deep. I'm glad I was there for that information.
So many in the church cry out for something better than a reply by a ventriloquist's doll.
The problem on the other hand is that so many want to become doctrinal experts so that others will hold them in a place of honor. We end up with sites dedicated to speculation: Groups will discuss the subject all presenting their personal opinion. These will be discussed backward and forward with absolutely no real conclusion. Thus people are lucky to actually learn anything; which defies the point of such discussion. But they see themselves as some doctinal expert. They miss the simplistic answer because their heads are too much up in the clouds. They have gone well beyond the mark.
So what is the answer to learning deep doctrine?
First we must have the right purpose. We plan on being able to assist the endless intelligences that wait for some God to come along and give them these opportunities. Are you willing to help out? If so then you will need to know what you are doing. Then there are those things that if you search your heart honestly you will find you want to know. You needn't hide your head in the sand and pretend you can't see them anymore. You can come out and go to God with true purpose of heart. And if you do this sincerely you will begin to get those answers.
Getting the Holy Ghost as a constant companion doesn't just come because someone placed his hands on your head with authority and says the magic words. You have to invite him in by listening to his counsel and following it. In the process he will help you learn the answers to the questions that others just wander around asking but never have an answer to.
We have a standard doctrine that is being taught in Gospel Doctrine classes. But many recognise the importance of developing our knowledge beyond the milk. They will attempt to get the conversation in the GD class to advance beyond where it is. But this will fail because the reason it is where it is, is because the class, as a whole, don't wish to advance beyond where they are.
The same applies to priesthood classes. As I hear the questions given and the answers I feel like someone has put 5 cents in the slot and pushed the button for answer number 49. "Why should we do Home Teaching, brethren?" "That's right, because Christ said to." That's deep. I'm glad I was there for that information.
So many in the church cry out for something better than a reply by a ventriloquist's doll.
The problem on the other hand is that so many want to become doctrinal experts so that others will hold them in a place of honor. We end up with sites dedicated to speculation: Groups will discuss the subject all presenting their personal opinion. These will be discussed backward and forward with absolutely no real conclusion. Thus people are lucky to actually learn anything; which defies the point of such discussion. But they see themselves as some doctinal expert. They miss the simplistic answer because their heads are too much up in the clouds. They have gone well beyond the mark.
So what is the answer to learning deep doctrine?
First we must have the right purpose. We plan on being able to assist the endless intelligences that wait for some God to come along and give them these opportunities. Are you willing to help out? If so then you will need to know what you are doing. Then there are those things that if you search your heart honestly you will find you want to know. You needn't hide your head in the sand and pretend you can't see them anymore. You can come out and go to God with true purpose of heart. And if you do this sincerely you will begin to get those answers.
Getting the Holy Ghost as a constant companion doesn't just come because someone placed his hands on your head with authority and says the magic words. You have to invite him in by listening to his counsel and following it. In the process he will help you learn the answers to the questions that others just wander around asking but never have an answer to.
Tuesday, December 25, 2012
The Spirit of Christmas or Santa?
I consider myself blessed in that I had a brother who informed me that there was no such thing as Santa when I was about 4 years old. Though his intentions weren't good, it was very helpful that then my Mother told me the truth when I asked her. For starters it was to her credit that I could know that my mother was an honest person when faced with it. Additionally this gave credit to her claim that there was a God.
So many children pass through Christmas with only the thought of what they are going to get. It becomes a very selfish time. In addition it gives the child the idea that regardless of how they've conducted their lives that Santa felt them good enough to get lots of toys. Some see this as that they are cleaver enough to have put it over on an adult (Santa).
Then there is the problem that Aunts and Uncles become objects that they see as suppliers of presents, rather than appreciating their affection for them.
It wasn't Santa that offered the gift. Heavenly Father sent us the gift at the birth of Christ. It is he that should be honored for the idea of giving gifts.
One last thing is in regard family at Christmas time. There are those without family to spend Christmas with. Let me say that we all have a Heavenly Father and an older brother in Jesus Christ. They are there with us at Christmas, provided we invite them in.
I wish you and your families and friends a Great Christmas and a Happy New Year.
So many children pass through Christmas with only the thought of what they are going to get. It becomes a very selfish time. In addition it gives the child the idea that regardless of how they've conducted their lives that Santa felt them good enough to get lots of toys. Some see this as that they are cleaver enough to have put it over on an adult (Santa).
Then there is the problem that Aunts and Uncles become objects that they see as suppliers of presents, rather than appreciating their affection for them.
It wasn't Santa that offered the gift. Heavenly Father sent us the gift at the birth of Christ. It is he that should be honored for the idea of giving gifts.
One last thing is in regard family at Christmas time. There are those without family to spend Christmas with. Let me say that we all have a Heavenly Father and an older brother in Jesus Christ. They are there with us at Christmas, provided we invite them in.
I wish you and your families and friends a Great Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Monday, November 19, 2012
Setting our Vietnams Right
I was recently watching a movie about some people who went into Vietnam to rescue POW's (Prisoners of War). The film had Americans killed in the process and they only managed to rescue 4 POW's. I looked at that with mixed feelings. But there was an additional aspect to it that the film brought out.
One of the team that went in had a son that he was informed by the POW's had died prior to the raid. When he returned to the states he and his wife hugged and cried tears of relief. They looked happy that they could now lay it to rest and move forward with their lives.
This is an interesting aspect to our lives: The ability to move ahead when difficulties occur. It is very easy to live in the past or the negative problems of the present. It is true that we have to deal with these things as best we can. But we have to accept our limitations sometimes. Or accept to have patience when that is necessary.
In the case of the movie they had a Vietnam to go back to in order to try and set things right. And sometimes we are fortunate to have a Vietnam. But mostly we must move forward having learnt from our mistakes. I'm thankful for repentance and a loving Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ who teach us how to live.
Let me add my very deep thanks to those Vietnam veterans who saved South East Asia from the attempted Chinese Empire.
One of the team that went in had a son that he was informed by the POW's had died prior to the raid. When he returned to the states he and his wife hugged and cried tears of relief. They looked happy that they could now lay it to rest and move forward with their lives.
This is an interesting aspect to our lives: The ability to move ahead when difficulties occur. It is very easy to live in the past or the negative problems of the present. It is true that we have to deal with these things as best we can. But we have to accept our limitations sometimes. Or accept to have patience when that is necessary.
In the case of the movie they had a Vietnam to go back to in order to try and set things right. And sometimes we are fortunate to have a Vietnam. But mostly we must move forward having learnt from our mistakes. I'm thankful for repentance and a loving Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ who teach us how to live.
Let me add my very deep thanks to those Vietnam veterans who saved South East Asia from the attempted Chinese Empire.
Monday, October 22, 2012
Can Mormons be Classified as "Christians?"
The word "Christ" comes from the Greek meaning "the anointed one." So, technically, to be classified as a "Christian" a person only need have belief in the fact that the anointed one exists. No one is qualified to dispute the right of the person to use this title beyond that.
Mormon doctrine includes the fact that Jesus of Nazareth is this Christ. It declares that he was born and raised as we all are. It states that he performed an atonement for our sins if we truly repent; and then died and was resurrected from the dead to make a resurrection that all share in.
Up to this point all those religions professing Christ don't differ. But as we go into what all this really means and what God wants, the different religions start to drift apart in opinion. Even various ministers within the same religions can be at total variance with each other.
I remember years ago watching a game show on television, called "Tell the Truth." Three people were presented all claiming to be Bill Jones (for example). And a panel asked them questions. In the end it was up to us to guess who we felt was the real Bill Jones. This certainly reminds me of this situation where we are invited to find out who the real Jesus Christ is. The religion to be qualified as the most Christian would be the one that is most correct about Jesus Christ.
It is plain, by the many religions we have professing Christ, that the Bible presents much confusion in interpretation. This is no wonder considering its size and the many types of people it had to deal with over the time. We have everything from the hard hearted people following Moses to the more spiritually prepared Elijah or Peter. God had to deliver a message to both these types of people in the one volume. It's like if you had two children, and told one of them they could plug in power cables and told the other they couldn't (because the second was too young to do it safely). If you had to do this in a volume where one wouldn't see the idea and the other would, it presents a real problem.
The wisest place to turn to in order to understand Jesus Christ is to look to his words to those spiritually ready to understand. Additionally his actions should be examined. So let's look at the real Jesus of the New Testament; where he was there before us to see in real life situations.
Firstly we find that he was born as other human beings are: He spent the time in the womb before coming out. Upon coming out he was wrapped in cloth (Luke 2:7) demonstrating that he couldn't walk. He had to learn just like we all do. The Bible mentions nothing of him being able to talk at that stage either. The Bible goes on to tell us that Jesus grew in spirit and became filled with wisdom (Luke 2:40). So we still have a very human Jesus.
The apostle Paul refers to Jesus Christ as "the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5) (Note also Acts 2:22), even after his death and resurrection. So we know he is a man. Yet we also know that he was specially chosen by God to be the mediator between us and God to have us saved from our sins (1 Tim 2:5).
While we know that Jesus was a man born as we are we are additionally told that he is the Great I Am of the Old Testament. So here we find that he had become Jehovah of the OT. He stated that he was their only God. And yet when referred to as being "good" Jesus himself stated that he wasn't "good" but only God was (Matt 19:17). Thus he at that stage of his existence had not become a God. This seems a contradiction, but I'll get to that.
We note that Jesus didn't have the authority to take priesthood onto himself, but had to be called of God like all men _
"So also Christ didn't glorify himself to be made an high priest; but [was called by] he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you." Hebrews 5:5
This creates an interesting understanding to the real Christ. Jesus has come as a human like us, yet he had an immortal father. We find that all things past, present and future are before God right now (eternity) (D&C 130:7). (This is also demonstrated by his ability to know future events). So upon becoming resurrected Christ had reached the stage where he was "good" also. He then became the God of the Old Testament - the Great I Am, and is going through this earth time as a God. For those with no understanding of how eternity works this seems terribly confusing. But as we seek to understand we begin to see it.
Christ also taught the manner in which we should pray is to pray to the Father through the name of Jesus Christ (John 16:23, Matt 6:9). This correct manner of prayer brings us closer to the Father and the Christ.
We must also come to realise that the Bible doesn't teach a trinity. Jesus was God's Son. Jesus stated that he didn't want to perform the atonement but would do so because the Father asked him to. Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him at the time of his death. Jesus went out and spent the night praying to the Father. Jesus had an angel come and help him in his performance of the atonement in the garden. Jesus asked that his apostles would become one with him and the Father. That they would be 14 in one. Obviously this was demonstrating that the idea is a symbolic concept.
Jesus taught that people aren't saved by just saying his name, but we must obey the Father (Matt 7:21). He taught that works are essential to our gaining the kingdom of heaven (Matt 25:31-46). Yet we also are taught that being saved from being in hell itself doesn't require works, but true faith that will create a new person who does good works.
"For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, in case any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
There are many ideas that the Bible shows about the true Christ. These are very important to our understanding of what is required of us. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has more of these biblically correct points and must therefore be declared the most "Christian."
Mormon doctrine includes the fact that Jesus of Nazareth is this Christ. It declares that he was born and raised as we all are. It states that he performed an atonement for our sins if we truly repent; and then died and was resurrected from the dead to make a resurrection that all share in.
Up to this point all those religions professing Christ don't differ. But as we go into what all this really means and what God wants, the different religions start to drift apart in opinion. Even various ministers within the same religions can be at total variance with each other.
I remember years ago watching a game show on television, called "Tell the Truth." Three people were presented all claiming to be Bill Jones (for example). And a panel asked them questions. In the end it was up to us to guess who we felt was the real Bill Jones. This certainly reminds me of this situation where we are invited to find out who the real Jesus Christ is. The religion to be qualified as the most Christian would be the one that is most correct about Jesus Christ.
It is plain, by the many religions we have professing Christ, that the Bible presents much confusion in interpretation. This is no wonder considering its size and the many types of people it had to deal with over the time. We have everything from the hard hearted people following Moses to the more spiritually prepared Elijah or Peter. God had to deliver a message to both these types of people in the one volume. It's like if you had two children, and told one of them they could plug in power cables and told the other they couldn't (because the second was too young to do it safely). If you had to do this in a volume where one wouldn't see the idea and the other would, it presents a real problem.
The wisest place to turn to in order to understand Jesus Christ is to look to his words to those spiritually ready to understand. Additionally his actions should be examined. So let's look at the real Jesus of the New Testament; where he was there before us to see in real life situations.
Firstly we find that he was born as other human beings are: He spent the time in the womb before coming out. Upon coming out he was wrapped in cloth (Luke 2:7) demonstrating that he couldn't walk. He had to learn just like we all do. The Bible mentions nothing of him being able to talk at that stage either. The Bible goes on to tell us that Jesus grew in spirit and became filled with wisdom (Luke 2:40). So we still have a very human Jesus.
The apostle Paul refers to Jesus Christ as "the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5) (Note also Acts 2:22), even after his death and resurrection. So we know he is a man. Yet we also know that he was specially chosen by God to be the mediator between us and God to have us saved from our sins (1 Tim 2:5).
While we know that Jesus was a man born as we are we are additionally told that he is the Great I Am of the Old Testament. So here we find that he had become Jehovah of the OT. He stated that he was their only God. And yet when referred to as being "good" Jesus himself stated that he wasn't "good" but only God was (Matt 19:17). Thus he at that stage of his existence had not become a God. This seems a contradiction, but I'll get to that.
We note that Jesus didn't have the authority to take priesthood onto himself, but had to be called of God like all men _
"So also Christ didn't glorify himself to be made an high priest; but [was called by] he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you." Hebrews 5:5
This creates an interesting understanding to the real Christ. Jesus has come as a human like us, yet he had an immortal father. We find that all things past, present and future are before God right now (eternity) (D&C 130:7). (This is also demonstrated by his ability to know future events). So upon becoming resurrected Christ had reached the stage where he was "good" also. He then became the God of the Old Testament - the Great I Am, and is going through this earth time as a God. For those with no understanding of how eternity works this seems terribly confusing. But as we seek to understand we begin to see it.
Christ also taught the manner in which we should pray is to pray to the Father through the name of Jesus Christ (John 16:23, Matt 6:9). This correct manner of prayer brings us closer to the Father and the Christ.
We must also come to realise that the Bible doesn't teach a trinity. Jesus was God's Son. Jesus stated that he didn't want to perform the atonement but would do so because the Father asked him to. Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him at the time of his death. Jesus went out and spent the night praying to the Father. Jesus had an angel come and help him in his performance of the atonement in the garden. Jesus asked that his apostles would become one with him and the Father. That they would be 14 in one. Obviously this was demonstrating that the idea is a symbolic concept.
Jesus taught that people aren't saved by just saying his name, but we must obey the Father (Matt 7:21). He taught that works are essential to our gaining the kingdom of heaven (Matt 25:31-46). Yet we also are taught that being saved from being in hell itself doesn't require works, but true faith that will create a new person who does good works.
"For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, in case any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
There are many ideas that the Bible shows about the true Christ. These are very important to our understanding of what is required of us. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has more of these biblically correct points and must therefore be declared the most "Christian."
Thursday, September 06, 2012
Husband / Wife (Partner) / Child Physical / Verbal Abuse in Marriage.
We hear a lot about this subject. It is a serious problem that takes place to some degree in almost every family home throughout the world. Many times it is subtle. Yet other times it is obvious in one gender and very subtle in the other.
In my first area of a mission (being an industrial area) I found physical violence took place in around 33% of homes. This was plain to hear as we would walk down the street at night time and hear the arguments with crashes and thuds. Not that it was all taking place at once, but continually walking down the same streets to get to where we were working we would eventually hear it.
My second area was very different in that it was a tourist resort; and the people were more involved in making money and their own personal lives. This meant the average couple were barely seeing each other and had no children - it was like there was no family.
In spite of this latter statement there are still subtle signs of one ruling the other. They will profess that there are no arguments and that they get on well. But continued observation demonstrates that is false. Watch an older couple as the wife tells the husband not to do something. He obeys. She may even slap his hand if he doesn't, while still professing they have no violence.
"I may miss the mark, but I don’t think by far, when I say that those who verbally or physically abuse their wives or husbands or those who degrade or demean or exercise unrighteous dominion in a marriage are not keeping the covenant." F. Howard Burton 173 Annual Conference.
I certainly agree with Bro. Burton's statement concerning temple covenants and the wives and husbands. This is not God's way.
Verbal violence usually comes in subtle ways, while physical violence is often more obvious to observe. Some may quote the old saying, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." This is said to suggest that verbal violence and nagging aren't that bad. But these can have long reaching effects.
For example a woman constantly nagging her husband can drive him to avoid coming home after work. He can get into the habit of going to the hotel for drinks with his work mates. Before long he can have become an alcoholic; and spending the family money on it. Then the wife is nagging even more because of the money situation. This drives him even further away from the family. With this comes low self-esteem and feelings of guilt.
Equally we can have a husband that constantly puts his wife down. She withdraws, and can even turn to legal drugs.
These types of effects are destined to create problems with the children unless the children learn positive things they should be doing from seeing the negative effects of their parents behavior. But the latter is asking a lot of the children.
My observations on a mission and since have shown the sad tale that women subtly or violently rule the home or the husband bashes the wife. Why is this so? It is because people have refused to learn from God's original statement that the man is actually to rule in the home in love. We can water it down to make it different to what the Scriptures say, to appease Women's Libbers. But it won't change reality. The truth still stands.
In looking at this I know that there is a general conception that men are the ones responsible for violence within the home. However claims are made that this is a false perception. The following are some statistics that have been presented to me _
"The federal government itself sponsored a study of "fatal child abuse", something many feminazis don't even comprehend, but which in the real world is nothing short of murder (or, actually, when killing innocent, defenseless children, it's the most cowardly and heinous form of murder imaginable) http://christianparty.net/nis3.htm
It illustrates that, compared to children in families, children in single-mother households are:
20 times more likely to be fatally abused.
22 times more likely to be seriously abused.
20 times more likely to be moderately abused.
27 times more likely to be emotionally neglected.
50 times more likely to be physically neglected.
55 times more likely to be educationally neglected."
In a report from Canada we find the following _
"Only in the Domestic Violence area did the number of women killed (109) exceed the number of men killed (77). However the feminists ignore the high rate of women killing men in domestic violence cases and act as if only women are the victims. Clearly they are the perpetrators in family killings at a rate not far behind men.
Women who kill can count on getting off completely or getting substantially lower sentences than men in similar situations."
http://www.canlaw.com/rights/whokills.htm
"Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men! There are dozens of solid scientific studies that reveal a startlingly different picture of family violence than what we usually see in the media. For instance:
Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.
Women initiate most incidents of spousal violence.
Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.
Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children.
Women commit most child murders and 64% of their victims are male children.
When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.
Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders.
Eighty two percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women."
Complete scientific citations are included in this report. Leading researchers have validated the statistics used here, "Murray Straus (a sociologist and co-director for the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire) verified the statistics from his report . . .and Richard Gelles of the University of Rhode Island and author of Intimate Violence and other studies, also validated the statistics used by matching it to previous research." Alice Lovejoy, Brown University. "Counter Punch")"
My own limited research has found that women admit to having been the original perpetrators of using objects in every case.
Yet should a man be domineering in running the home? Obviously not. And God doesn't suggest such a thing. God speaks of the woman being part of the man's flesh. God has man loving his wives, not abusing them. But God does have the man as the final decision maker as surely as the bishop must make a final decision when getting counsel from his counselors. A stake president must make a final decision when receiving counsel from the high counselors and his counselors. This is God's way. He knows that you can't have 2 presidents in the church or the home.
It is nothing short of airy-fairy nonsense to talk of 2 people being able to come to the same decision every time, unless both are subservient to Christ in all things and are led by the Spirit in all things.
What do the Scriptures tell us concerning this? _
1 Pet 3:1 "Likewise, you wives, be in subjection to your own husbands..."
1 Pet 3:6 "Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord..."
1 Tim 2:12-13 "But I suffer a woman not to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
Eph 5:24 "Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject to their own husbands in every thing."
Moses 4:22 "To the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception. In sorrow you shall bring forth children, and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." (See also Gen 3:16)
This is what God has directed to be said. There isn't some other way that God forgot about at the time. It is true that marriage partners are equal in that they have the same value before God. They are equal in that their opinion is important to be heard. But in the end it is the man who is required to seek counsel of the Lord and make the final decision.
When families are run the way that God has directed then these problems of abuse will cease. In the meantime if you are one of those not supporting God's way it is senseless pointing the finger at those with noticeable problems in these areas.
In my first area of a mission (being an industrial area) I found physical violence took place in around 33% of homes. This was plain to hear as we would walk down the street at night time and hear the arguments with crashes and thuds. Not that it was all taking place at once, but continually walking down the same streets to get to where we were working we would eventually hear it.
My second area was very different in that it was a tourist resort; and the people were more involved in making money and their own personal lives. This meant the average couple were barely seeing each other and had no children - it was like there was no family.
In spite of this latter statement there are still subtle signs of one ruling the other. They will profess that there are no arguments and that they get on well. But continued observation demonstrates that is false. Watch an older couple as the wife tells the husband not to do something. He obeys. She may even slap his hand if he doesn't, while still professing they have no violence.
"I may miss the mark, but I don’t think by far, when I say that those who verbally or physically abuse their wives or husbands or those who degrade or demean or exercise unrighteous dominion in a marriage are not keeping the covenant." F. Howard Burton 173 Annual Conference.
I certainly agree with Bro. Burton's statement concerning temple covenants and the wives and husbands. This is not God's way.
Verbal violence usually comes in subtle ways, while physical violence is often more obvious to observe. Some may quote the old saying, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." This is said to suggest that verbal violence and nagging aren't that bad. But these can have long reaching effects.
For example a woman constantly nagging her husband can drive him to avoid coming home after work. He can get into the habit of going to the hotel for drinks with his work mates. Before long he can have become an alcoholic; and spending the family money on it. Then the wife is nagging even more because of the money situation. This drives him even further away from the family. With this comes low self-esteem and feelings of guilt.
Equally we can have a husband that constantly puts his wife down. She withdraws, and can even turn to legal drugs.
These types of effects are destined to create problems with the children unless the children learn positive things they should be doing from seeing the negative effects of their parents behavior. But the latter is asking a lot of the children.
My observations on a mission and since have shown the sad tale that women subtly or violently rule the home or the husband bashes the wife. Why is this so? It is because people have refused to learn from God's original statement that the man is actually to rule in the home in love. We can water it down to make it different to what the Scriptures say, to appease Women's Libbers. But it won't change reality. The truth still stands.
In looking at this I know that there is a general conception that men are the ones responsible for violence within the home. However claims are made that this is a false perception. The following are some statistics that have been presented to me _
"The federal government itself sponsored a study of "fatal child abuse", something many feminazis don't even comprehend, but which in the real world is nothing short of murder (or, actually, when killing innocent, defenseless children, it's the most cowardly and heinous form of murder imaginable) http://christianparty.net/nis3.htm
It illustrates that, compared to children in families, children in single-mother households are:
20 times more likely to be fatally abused.
22 times more likely to be seriously abused.
20 times more likely to be moderately abused.
27 times more likely to be emotionally neglected.
50 times more likely to be physically neglected.
55 times more likely to be educationally neglected."
In a report from Canada we find the following _
"Only in the Domestic Violence area did the number of women killed (109) exceed the number of men killed (77). However the feminists ignore the high rate of women killing men in domestic violence cases and act as if only women are the victims. Clearly they are the perpetrators in family killings at a rate not far behind men.
Women who kill can count on getting off completely or getting substantially lower sentences than men in similar situations."
http://www.canlaw.com/rights/whokills.htm
"Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men! There are dozens of solid scientific studies that reveal a startlingly different picture of family violence than what we usually see in the media. For instance:
Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.
Women initiate most incidents of spousal violence.
Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.
Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children.
Women commit most child murders and 64% of their victims are male children.
When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.
Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders.
Eighty two percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women."
Complete scientific citations are included in this report. Leading researchers have validated the statistics used here, "Murray Straus (a sociologist and co-director for the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire) verified the statistics from his report . . .and Richard Gelles of the University of Rhode Island and author of Intimate Violence and other studies, also validated the statistics used by matching it to previous research." Alice Lovejoy, Brown University. "Counter Punch")"
My own limited research has found that women admit to having been the original perpetrators of using objects in every case.
Yet should a man be domineering in running the home? Obviously not. And God doesn't suggest such a thing. God speaks of the woman being part of the man's flesh. God has man loving his wives, not abusing them. But God does have the man as the final decision maker as surely as the bishop must make a final decision when getting counsel from his counselors. A stake president must make a final decision when receiving counsel from the high counselors and his counselors. This is God's way. He knows that you can't have 2 presidents in the church or the home.
It is nothing short of airy-fairy nonsense to talk of 2 people being able to come to the same decision every time, unless both are subservient to Christ in all things and are led by the Spirit in all things.
What do the Scriptures tell us concerning this? _
1 Pet 3:1 "Likewise, you wives, be in subjection to your own husbands..."
1 Pet 3:6 "Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord..."
1 Tim 2:12-13 "But I suffer a woman not to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
Eph 5:24 "Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject to their own husbands in every thing."
Moses 4:22 "To the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception. In sorrow you shall bring forth children, and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you." (See also Gen 3:16)
This is what God has directed to be said. There isn't some other way that God forgot about at the time. It is true that marriage partners are equal in that they have the same value before God. They are equal in that their opinion is important to be heard. But in the end it is the man who is required to seek counsel of the Lord and make the final decision.
When families are run the way that God has directed then these problems of abuse will cease. In the meantime if you are one of those not supporting God's way it is senseless pointing the finger at those with noticeable problems in these areas.
Thursday, August 16, 2012
Is the Book of Mormon More Correct than the D&C and PofGP?
Joseph Smith recorded _
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." History of the Church, 4:461
This statement presents a lot of questions. The most obvious being what of the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price? Are these books less correct than the Book of Mormon?
I believe that Joseph Smith wasn't thinking of the D&C and PofGP as finished books at the time of making this statement. After all additions to them were made afterward, by himself. I believe his statement refers to the Book of Mormon relative to the Bible. He is presenting that as the Bible has been doctored, the Book of Mormon is more correct.
Yet still on the title page of the Book of Mormon, Moroni states _
"And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God" Introduction, Title Page
So Moroni has accepted that mistakes can still occur when man is writing or dictating Scripture. And he has accepted that such mistakes can exist in the work they have put on gold plates. Additionally several times throughout the Book of Mormon the writers refer to the problems they have expressing their real meanings, due to the sloppiness of hieroglyphics.
Moroni states _
"...and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, you would have had no imperfection in our record." Mormon 9:33
So again we have Moroni stating that imperfections exist in the Book of Mormon. Yet he believes that writing in Hebrew would resolve the problem.
Another point that members tend to raise in a positive light for the Book of Mormon relative to other sets of our Scriptures, is that it is written for our day. However that isn't correct. It would be correct to say that it was compiled on the gold plates for our value today. But it was written for the people at the time. Alma (for example) was not writing to us. He was writing for the value of his people. As surely as Moses wasn't writing in the Old Testament to us just because we have it today either. He was writing to the people of his time mostly.
In regard the Doctrine and Covenants it states at the front _
"The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of divine revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the kingdom of God on the earth in the last days." Explanatory Introduction
So the D&C was written for our time much more than the Book of Mormon was.
The completing of the D&C and PofGP as finished books brings them equal status as Keystones to our religion. The D&C contains many unique doctrines that aren't contained in the Book of Mormon. And the PofGP teaches many different things. The whole concept of continued revelation is more evident by the creation of the D&C than the one off revelatory interpretation of the gold plates.
This brings us down to the question of whether the Book of Mormon will get you nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than the Doctrine and Covenants or Pearl of Great Price? This is one place where the Book of Mormon wins. The teachings that Christ presented in the ancient Americas contain the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ in its perfect form. There is nowhere else where it is more clearly stated than in 3rd Nephi.
"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." History of the Church, 4:461
This statement presents a lot of questions. The most obvious being what of the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price? Are these books less correct than the Book of Mormon?
I believe that Joseph Smith wasn't thinking of the D&C and PofGP as finished books at the time of making this statement. After all additions to them were made afterward, by himself. I believe his statement refers to the Book of Mormon relative to the Bible. He is presenting that as the Bible has been doctored, the Book of Mormon is more correct.
Yet still on the title page of the Book of Mormon, Moroni states _
"And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God" Introduction, Title Page
So Moroni has accepted that mistakes can still occur when man is writing or dictating Scripture. And he has accepted that such mistakes can exist in the work they have put on gold plates. Additionally several times throughout the Book of Mormon the writers refer to the problems they have expressing their real meanings, due to the sloppiness of hieroglyphics.
Moroni states _
"...and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, you would have had no imperfection in our record." Mormon 9:33
So again we have Moroni stating that imperfections exist in the Book of Mormon. Yet he believes that writing in Hebrew would resolve the problem.
Another point that members tend to raise in a positive light for the Book of Mormon relative to other sets of our Scriptures, is that it is written for our day. However that isn't correct. It would be correct to say that it was compiled on the gold plates for our value today. But it was written for the people at the time. Alma (for example) was not writing to us. He was writing for the value of his people. As surely as Moses wasn't writing in the Old Testament to us just because we have it today either. He was writing to the people of his time mostly.
In regard the Doctrine and Covenants it states at the front _
"The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of divine revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the kingdom of God on the earth in the last days." Explanatory Introduction
So the D&C was written for our time much more than the Book of Mormon was.
The completing of the D&C and PofGP as finished books brings them equal status as Keystones to our religion. The D&C contains many unique doctrines that aren't contained in the Book of Mormon. And the PofGP teaches many different things. The whole concept of continued revelation is more evident by the creation of the D&C than the one off revelatory interpretation of the gold plates.
This brings us down to the question of whether the Book of Mormon will get you nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than the Doctrine and Covenants or Pearl of Great Price? This is one place where the Book of Mormon wins. The teachings that Christ presented in the ancient Americas contain the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ in its perfect form. There is nowhere else where it is more clearly stated than in 3rd Nephi.
Monday, July 16, 2012
Freedom of Thought - Brainwashed?
One of the main complaints relative to our religion is that it removes independent thinking. There is talk of us being mindwashed: That we just do and think whatever we are told to by church "leaders." Just how accurate is this perception?
When we look at this subject we have to look around at just how much mindwashing exists all around us. I'd like to start with looking at those things mostly not related to religion to demonstrate the point. We are convinced of a lot of ideas that have absolutely no evidence for being true.
For example when I was younger we had been mindwashed to believe that the rings around Saturn were either made of gases or an oil-like substance. And secondly that they were continuous. This was pumped into us through school and within society. Yet when a probe finally passed Saturn both claims were found to be false. It was made of rocks and in fragments.
I was brought up to believe that I should feel guilty, being a white person, because of all these suppressive things we have done to the natives all over the world. We had been mindwashed to believe that the natives had a bliss of ignorance. However upon growing up and looking at the situation of how those people lived, prior to white man, I discovered the nonsense in that idea: People eating their babies because of being traditionally too lazy to plant crops, people dying from superstition because a witch doctor pointed a bone at them, populations being low because of constant war between tribes, entire peoples with their way of living being heavy drug taking, people who rejected new ideas and expelled those who came up with them, fierce pride that made it that apologies were out of the question and duels had to occur to right the situation (as a way of life), etc. (depending upon which peoples we are speaking of).
We have women trying to pretend they are men by wearing business suits, cutting their hair, getting a career, and trying to prove how tough they are. I'm waiting to see them out on the golf course next. They feel that somehow this makes them a superior woman.
The most appropriate example in this thought is when people talk of brainwashing. This enforces the myth that the brain is actually capable of thinking, just because it can product electrical impulses when thinking activity is happening. If it wasn't for mindwashing people would realise just how ridiculously impossible it is for something as small as a brain to hold your memories for an entire lifetime (or even one year).
We have been mindwashed to believe that someone can have a device that can determine accurately how old an item is. What is more we have been persuaded to believe that it must be accurate when it talks of something being MILLIONS of years old. I mean, what nonsense! How can people be so deceived? Considering that the real accuracy for carbon dating has been shown to be nothing short of pathetic (in spite of claims of scientists) how can we go on to believe in even more ancient dating methods?
We have a society that has been persuaded to believe that homosexuality is natural and that people are born that way. Yet dogs all around us are not demonstrating such activity where a dog will allow another dog to place his penis up the others rear end. And in spite of the fact that I've observed male dogs even trying to have sex with a lamp post, I have never seen a female dog licking another female in the vagina. So what happened to nature there? We should be seeing high percentages of such.
In the 60s and 70s people were told that pornography should be made more readily available, and that this would decrease rape, as would be rapists would just masturbate themselves, thus decreasing the need to rape. Hmmmmm.
People in the 60s and 70s were told to stop smacking their disobedient children, as smacking made the children more violent. They presented that stopping smacking would make children less violent, and thus violence in children would virtually cease. Er...yeah...
We have been mindwashed to believe there is good and bad cholesterol, that the stars are definitely a certain distance from each other, that there really was a dinosaur age, and an ice age, and some believe that Corn Flakes and McDonalds are actually healthy for us.
Having looked at the world around us briefly, this leads us to question just how religion itself is affected by mindwashing? Does religion increase the mindwashing problem or save us from the society's mindwashing?
There isn't an absolute answer to that question, as it depends on what people believe. It particularly depends on whether people allow themselves to be mindwashed without any thinking things through.
For example if I deliberately choose to ignore contradictions in my religious beliefs, then my religion is as useless as these other philosophies of the world I have quoted. I must be prepared to be honest with myself and accept that contradictions must be thought through and answered. The more I bury my head in the sand and pretend not to see contradictions the more I will become blinded and the further in the sand I will have to stick my head to ignore what I really know.
Some have said to me that I have just been mindwashed to believe these things. Yet the truth is that I virtually have changed my mind about everything since I was young. And this was due to several factors. One of them definitely being those things presented by the church. I was raised believing in the Protestant/Catholic (and partially Old Testament) god. It took many years of study of Scripture, discussion with the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father himself to come to find the true God. I had to unmindwash an enormous amount of stuff.
Our society is mindwashed to believe that evil is good and good is for the weak minded. We are mindwashed to believe that wealth and fame brings happiness. We are told that revenge is sweet, there is nothing better than lustful sex, being rich is good, etc.
So how does my religion go with this? God tells us this seemingly amazing concept that forgiveness is sweet. What??? Forgiveness is sweet? You have got to be joking, we question? Yet we try it out and eventually find it works. Mindwashing? Have I been mindwashed or has my mind now become free? I feel uplifted by following that advice instead of what the world says. It is true that hearing that idea expressed from the pulpit over and over finally got me to follow the idea and gain the benefits of forgiving others. My heart feels so much happier. So one mindwashing has been used to bring me to realise that the other mindwashing was false. Is that a bad thing? Obviously not.
And this is the way I find with all true religious concepts. Lust mixed with love seemed good until I found full love without lust. Possessing seemed good until I found the full feelings of giving without worldly reward. Interestingly that latter came by pure chance. However recognising what had happened came from the mindwashing that I had heard all my life (that it is better to give than receive). I had always disputed that in my heart, feeling that I enjoyed getting Christmas presents more than giving them to others. Then I went on a mission just before Christmas. My family and friends hadn't had time to find my address and send me a present before Christmas. But I was out on a mission serving others. For the first time I felt that feeling inside myself of how much happier I felt just thinking of others instead of what I was going to get.
While on the one hand I allow God to mindwash me, on the other hand he has had a hard job getting me to listen over the years. So his mindwashing has been done with lots of examination and reluctance by me. Fortunately I have broken down enormously, as he's been so consistently right (all the time) in spite of how absurd some of those ideas have seemed to me over the years. He and Jesus Christ have shown me miraculous things in that time. By "miraculous things" I'm not so much referring to the outward miracles (though I've seen many of those), but the ones that count to us more - the inward miraculous changes.
When we look at this subject we have to look around at just how much mindwashing exists all around us. I'd like to start with looking at those things mostly not related to religion to demonstrate the point. We are convinced of a lot of ideas that have absolutely no evidence for being true.
For example when I was younger we had been mindwashed to believe that the rings around Saturn were either made of gases or an oil-like substance. And secondly that they were continuous. This was pumped into us through school and within society. Yet when a probe finally passed Saturn both claims were found to be false. It was made of rocks and in fragments.
I was brought up to believe that I should feel guilty, being a white person, because of all these suppressive things we have done to the natives all over the world. We had been mindwashed to believe that the natives had a bliss of ignorance. However upon growing up and looking at the situation of how those people lived, prior to white man, I discovered the nonsense in that idea: People eating their babies because of being traditionally too lazy to plant crops, people dying from superstition because a witch doctor pointed a bone at them, populations being low because of constant war between tribes, entire peoples with their way of living being heavy drug taking, people who rejected new ideas and expelled those who came up with them, fierce pride that made it that apologies were out of the question and duels had to occur to right the situation (as a way of life), etc. (depending upon which peoples we are speaking of).
We have women trying to pretend they are men by wearing business suits, cutting their hair, getting a career, and trying to prove how tough they are. I'm waiting to see them out on the golf course next. They feel that somehow this makes them a superior woman.
The most appropriate example in this thought is when people talk of brainwashing. This enforces the myth that the brain is actually capable of thinking, just because it can product electrical impulses when thinking activity is happening. If it wasn't for mindwashing people would realise just how ridiculously impossible it is for something as small as a brain to hold your memories for an entire lifetime (or even one year).
We have been mindwashed to believe that someone can have a device that can determine accurately how old an item is. What is more we have been persuaded to believe that it must be accurate when it talks of something being MILLIONS of years old. I mean, what nonsense! How can people be so deceived? Considering that the real accuracy for carbon dating has been shown to be nothing short of pathetic (in spite of claims of scientists) how can we go on to believe in even more ancient dating methods?
We have a society that has been persuaded to believe that homosexuality is natural and that people are born that way. Yet dogs all around us are not demonstrating such activity where a dog will allow another dog to place his penis up the others rear end. And in spite of the fact that I've observed male dogs even trying to have sex with a lamp post, I have never seen a female dog licking another female in the vagina. So what happened to nature there? We should be seeing high percentages of such.
In the 60s and 70s people were told that pornography should be made more readily available, and that this would decrease rape, as would be rapists would just masturbate themselves, thus decreasing the need to rape. Hmmmmm.
People in the 60s and 70s were told to stop smacking their disobedient children, as smacking made the children more violent. They presented that stopping smacking would make children less violent, and thus violence in children would virtually cease. Er...yeah...
We have been mindwashed to believe there is good and bad cholesterol, that the stars are definitely a certain distance from each other, that there really was a dinosaur age, and an ice age, and some believe that Corn Flakes and McDonalds are actually healthy for us.
Having looked at the world around us briefly, this leads us to question just how religion itself is affected by mindwashing? Does religion increase the mindwashing problem or save us from the society's mindwashing?
There isn't an absolute answer to that question, as it depends on what people believe. It particularly depends on whether people allow themselves to be mindwashed without any thinking things through.
For example if I deliberately choose to ignore contradictions in my religious beliefs, then my religion is as useless as these other philosophies of the world I have quoted. I must be prepared to be honest with myself and accept that contradictions must be thought through and answered. The more I bury my head in the sand and pretend not to see contradictions the more I will become blinded and the further in the sand I will have to stick my head to ignore what I really know.
Some have said to me that I have just been mindwashed to believe these things. Yet the truth is that I virtually have changed my mind about everything since I was young. And this was due to several factors. One of them definitely being those things presented by the church. I was raised believing in the Protestant/Catholic (and partially Old Testament) god. It took many years of study of Scripture, discussion with the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father himself to come to find the true God. I had to unmindwash an enormous amount of stuff.
Our society is mindwashed to believe that evil is good and good is for the weak minded. We are mindwashed to believe that wealth and fame brings happiness. We are told that revenge is sweet, there is nothing better than lustful sex, being rich is good, etc.
So how does my religion go with this? God tells us this seemingly amazing concept that forgiveness is sweet. What??? Forgiveness is sweet? You have got to be joking, we question? Yet we try it out and eventually find it works. Mindwashing? Have I been mindwashed or has my mind now become free? I feel uplifted by following that advice instead of what the world says. It is true that hearing that idea expressed from the pulpit over and over finally got me to follow the idea and gain the benefits of forgiving others. My heart feels so much happier. So one mindwashing has been used to bring me to realise that the other mindwashing was false. Is that a bad thing? Obviously not.
And this is the way I find with all true religious concepts. Lust mixed with love seemed good until I found full love without lust. Possessing seemed good until I found the full feelings of giving without worldly reward. Interestingly that latter came by pure chance. However recognising what had happened came from the mindwashing that I had heard all my life (that it is better to give than receive). I had always disputed that in my heart, feeling that I enjoyed getting Christmas presents more than giving them to others. Then I went on a mission just before Christmas. My family and friends hadn't had time to find my address and send me a present before Christmas. But I was out on a mission serving others. For the first time I felt that feeling inside myself of how much happier I felt just thinking of others instead of what I was going to get.
While on the one hand I allow God to mindwash me, on the other hand he has had a hard job getting me to listen over the years. So his mindwashing has been done with lots of examination and reluctance by me. Fortunately I have broken down enormously, as he's been so consistently right (all the time) in spite of how absurd some of those ideas have seemed to me over the years. He and Jesus Christ have shown me miraculous things in that time. By "miraculous things" I'm not so much referring to the outward miracles (though I've seen many of those), but the ones that count to us more - the inward miraculous changes.
Monday, June 25, 2012
Does Sealing Power by Righteous Parents make Wayward Children Change?
As this discussion has gone on at my answers site, and I don't publish comments on that site, I thought it best to put the subject up here so that anyone wishing to discuss it further can express their thoughts.
There is a doctrine that has come forward claiming that if righteous parents are sealed to their children in the temple then even if their children go astray that they will at some point return and gain eternal life. The claim is that the sealing will make this happen. Furthermore it is quoted that this change can even take place in the eternities.
Quotes are proposed from General Authorities as supporting this idea. Let's look at those quotes and the case of Alma the younger.
Joseph Smith:
“The world is reserved unto burning in the last days. He shall send Elijah the prophet, and he shall reveal the covenants of the fathers in relation to the children, and the covenants of the children in relation to the fathers. Four destroying angels holding power over the four quarters of the earth until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads, which signifies sealing the blessing upon their heads, meaning the everlasting covenant, thereby making their calling and election sure. When a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity, so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 321).
Brigham Young:
“Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.” (Brigham Young, JD 11:215).
Gordon B. Hinckley:
"May you be blessed, each of you. May there be love and peace and gladness in your homes. I leave my blessing upon you. May there be food on your table, clothing on your backs, shelter over your heads and a sense of security and peace and love among your children, precious children every one of them, even those who may have strayed. I hope you don't lose patience with them; I hope you go on praying for them, and I don't hesitate to promise that if you do so, the Lord will touch their hearts and bring them back to you with love and respect and appreciation.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Prophet Returns To 'beloved England', LDS Church News, 1995, 09/02/95).
Spencer W. Kimball:
“I have sometimes seen children of good families rebel, resist, stray, sin, and even actually fight God. In this they bring sorrow to their parents, who have done their best to ... teach and live as examples. But I have repeatedly seen many of these same children ... repent... The reason I believe this can take place is that, despite all the adverse winds to which these people have been subjected, they have been influenced still more, and much more than they realized, by the current of life in the homes in which they were reared. When, in later years, they feel a longing to recreate in their own families the same atmosphere they enjoyed as children, they are likely to turn to the faith that gave meaning to their parents lives.” (President Spencer W. Kimball, Ocean Currents and Family Influences, Ensign (CR), November 1974, p.110).
Additionally the following thought was presented by someone in favor of the absolute sealing idea _
"Alma the younger lived a very sinful life. Then, an angel appeared to him and he received a miraculous conversion. Was it the angel that changed his heart? No. Alma 36:17 presents that he was “harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy to the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ…” So it was his memory of his childhood and the joy he felt then when his father taught him the gospel of Jesus Christ. Wayward children in Mortality (physical world or spirit world) will remember their childhood of joy if and only if their parents taught them well and the parents have sufficient faith."
Joseph Smith's symbolic statement presents the idea of magic sealings - go to the temple, have some symbols done, be a reasonable person and your children are guaranteed to be magically saved at some point in eternity. The idea presented in the latter quotes, however, isn't reflecting the simplistic idea Joseph has presented. The latter idea presented here is actually supported in Scripture and based on sound logic. I'm not suggesting Joseph was wrong, as such. I'm proposing that his view of it was extremely basic and needed enlarging to find what was really on his mind.
So let's have a look at it.
Joseph Smith's statement is obviously shrouded in symbolism. Talk of "destroying angels," "four quarters of the earth," "sealed in their foreheads," etc are things to come to understand the meaning of. Fortunately the Scriptures do help us in this regard to some degree. But those ideas are interpretable (thus arguable). I personally am sure that the talk of sealing in the forehead means that the mind has taken it in and the person's mind won't be changed: They have set their course. Thus their election is secured.
I'd like to start with how Brigham sees this. He presents that if parents who have accepted the full truth, live a righteous life (by God's standard), strive with all their might to never do evil but to do good continually, strive to have their children grow up with a full faith in Christ and teaching them to pray sincerely, that even though their children may stray they will eventually be drawn back by that upbringing.
This sounds far more God like than being saved by magic and symbols (as it has been interpreted by some). Brother Hinkley and Brother Kimball's statements reflect Brigham's logic.
As to Alma the Younger, I also had my wayward years (I always believed in Christ however) and I know that my mother continually prayed for me. I know my mother's prayers are very effective. It took 3 years of wayward research for me to wake up. So I have no doubt that these things happen. Yet I must add that I was not sealed in the temple at that stage. I had never even entered a temple; and was not born under the covenant of a sealing. My mother's prayers were effective and the whole thing went that way without any "sealing power." I would like to believe that it is a guaranteed, as Brigham says. Scriptural support does exist for children turning out right as being guaranteed where the right person is the parent.
"For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he has spoken of him." Genesis 18:19
So God is saying that Abraham's children were guaranteed to come out right.
Yet it should be noted that both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young have said nothing about these children changing in the eternities. Anyone taking it to mean so would be doing such off his own bat, unless he can support such from Scripture. D&C 76 etc etc etc disagree with changes occurring to people's outcomes later. Now is the time for man to prepare to meet God.
IF some GA accepts an extreme interpretation of this I would have to refer to the following _
President Harold B. Lee, when president of the church, in a European area conference:
"If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth." [emphasis mine] The First Area General Conference for Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and Spain of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in Munich Germany, August 24-26, 1973, with Reports and Discourses, 69.
Of course the catch 22 of this statement is that it can't be wrong. If it is then that makes it right, because it was made by the president of the church. And if he is wrong then that makes him right.
So we need to look to the Standard Works and judge this idea. Here it gains both support for what they are saying (though not the idea of a magical sealing power) and opposition.
"...for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy to thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Exodus 20:5-6
This proposes that the evil acts of parents do come upon the children in effect to the third and fourth generation after them. Therefore as all things have an equal good and bad side, it stands that the same is true for good that parents do. Thus it is true that the good acts of the parents come upon the children to the third and fourth generation. And so Joseph Smith's statement surely must have been based on this inference.
Yet for any today to take this as an absolute, has Scriptural opposition. The second verse quoted above in Exodus demonstrates that those who love him receive mercy. So what if a person has evil parents but becomes righteous? Don't they get this mercy? And if so then the reverse must also apply.
Were the sins of Terah passed on to Abraham? From a spiritual sense it would certainly seem not. Were the sins of Levi passed on to Moses? Spiritually, no! For while God declared that they were passed on to those generations, righteousness eliminates the cursing from spiritual consequences.
"Again, when I say to the wicked, you shall surely die; if he turns from this sin, and does that which is lawful and right....he shall not die." Ezek 33:14-15 (also note verses 13 for the adverse).
So even if God declares a cursing or blessing it isn't absolute if there is a change to the opposite lifestyle. If a son of righteous parents does evil don't his children fit under the curse of Exodus 20:5-6 (quoted above)? So then are we to believe that this evil son, who has placed a 4 generation curse on his descendants, is going to go to the Celestial? And this because his parents placed a one generation blessing upon him that he can't transgress from, whatever he does?
Adam was the great archangel Michael in the pre-existence. Surely then his children will all be saved into the Celestial kingdom if we are to take these statements as absolutes.
Yet in regard Cain the Lord said,
"If you do well, you shall be accepted. And if you do not well sin lies at the door, and Satan desires to have you; and except you shall listen to my commandments, I will deliver you up, and it shall be to you according to his desire. And you shall rule over him; For from this time forward you shall be the father of his lies; you shall be called Perdition; for you were also before the world." Moses 5:23-24
Should we regard that such will be in the Celestial kingdom afterward: That the tentacles have reached out to save Cain?
What of Lehi and Sariah with Laman and Lemuel? Are we to believe that we will be with Laman and Lemuel in the Celestial kingdom?
Or can a person commit the unpardonable sin and then be saved into the Celestial kingdom because his father and mother were good people?
And what of Alma's statement? _
"You can't say, when you are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. No, you can't say this; for that same spirit which possesses your bodies at the time that you go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. For see, if you have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, look, you have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you, and has no place in you, and the devil has all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked." Alma 34:34-35
Clearly Alma is declaring that those who turn away from God and won't change back in this life, have set their course, and WON'T change it back later.
Joseph Smith received a revelation recorded in D&C 76. The only people it declares to be going to hell are those who will be in the telestial kingdom (those going to outer darkness are stated to just be in a permanent state of woe, which isn't the same hell state).
"These are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestial." verses 84-86
Note it states that they will not receive a fulness in the eternal world. No talk of them moving onto a fulness at some stage of eternity.
In regard these it goes on further to state,
"For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end." D&C 76:111-112
Two things stand out here. One is that they receive a mansion according to their works. Not the works of their parents being taken into account also. The second is that they cannot move up into the Celestial kingdom - "worlds without end."
So we have seen that making these things Joseph Smith has stated into an inevitability; proposing some magical "sealing power" that will make people become righteous again later on, is to take words to an extreme. These Scripture texts opposing such an interpretation are only a few that I could think of with almost no effort. The list of Scripture texts opposing such an extreme interpretation seem almost endless to me.
There is a doctrine that has come forward claiming that if righteous parents are sealed to their children in the temple then even if their children go astray that they will at some point return and gain eternal life. The claim is that the sealing will make this happen. Furthermore it is quoted that this change can even take place in the eternities.
Quotes are proposed from General Authorities as supporting this idea. Let's look at those quotes and the case of Alma the younger.
Joseph Smith:
“The world is reserved unto burning in the last days. He shall send Elijah the prophet, and he shall reveal the covenants of the fathers in relation to the children, and the covenants of the children in relation to the fathers. Four destroying angels holding power over the four quarters of the earth until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads, which signifies sealing the blessing upon their heads, meaning the everlasting covenant, thereby making their calling and election sure. When a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity, so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 321).
Brigham Young:
“Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.” (Brigham Young, JD 11:215).
Gordon B. Hinckley:
"May you be blessed, each of you. May there be love and peace and gladness in your homes. I leave my blessing upon you. May there be food on your table, clothing on your backs, shelter over your heads and a sense of security and peace and love among your children, precious children every one of them, even those who may have strayed. I hope you don't lose patience with them; I hope you go on praying for them, and I don't hesitate to promise that if you do so, the Lord will touch their hearts and bring them back to you with love and respect and appreciation.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Prophet Returns To 'beloved England', LDS Church News, 1995, 09/02/95).
Spencer W. Kimball:
“I have sometimes seen children of good families rebel, resist, stray, sin, and even actually fight God. In this they bring sorrow to their parents, who have done their best to ... teach and live as examples. But I have repeatedly seen many of these same children ... repent... The reason I believe this can take place is that, despite all the adverse winds to which these people have been subjected, they have been influenced still more, and much more than they realized, by the current of life in the homes in which they were reared. When, in later years, they feel a longing to recreate in their own families the same atmosphere they enjoyed as children, they are likely to turn to the faith that gave meaning to their parents lives.” (President Spencer W. Kimball, Ocean Currents and Family Influences, Ensign (CR), November 1974, p.110).
Additionally the following thought was presented by someone in favor of the absolute sealing idea _
"Alma the younger lived a very sinful life. Then, an angel appeared to him and he received a miraculous conversion. Was it the angel that changed his heart? No. Alma 36:17 presents that he was “harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy to the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ…” So it was his memory of his childhood and the joy he felt then when his father taught him the gospel of Jesus Christ. Wayward children in Mortality (physical world or spirit world) will remember their childhood of joy if and only if their parents taught them well and the parents have sufficient faith."
Joseph Smith's symbolic statement presents the idea of magic sealings - go to the temple, have some symbols done, be a reasonable person and your children are guaranteed to be magically saved at some point in eternity. The idea presented in the latter quotes, however, isn't reflecting the simplistic idea Joseph has presented. The latter idea presented here is actually supported in Scripture and based on sound logic. I'm not suggesting Joseph was wrong, as such. I'm proposing that his view of it was extremely basic and needed enlarging to find what was really on his mind.
So let's have a look at it.
Joseph Smith's statement is obviously shrouded in symbolism. Talk of "destroying angels," "four quarters of the earth," "sealed in their foreheads," etc are things to come to understand the meaning of. Fortunately the Scriptures do help us in this regard to some degree. But those ideas are interpretable (thus arguable). I personally am sure that the talk of sealing in the forehead means that the mind has taken it in and the person's mind won't be changed: They have set their course. Thus their election is secured.
I'd like to start with how Brigham sees this. He presents that if parents who have accepted the full truth, live a righteous life (by God's standard), strive with all their might to never do evil but to do good continually, strive to have their children grow up with a full faith in Christ and teaching them to pray sincerely, that even though their children may stray they will eventually be drawn back by that upbringing.
This sounds far more God like than being saved by magic and symbols (as it has been interpreted by some). Brother Hinkley and Brother Kimball's statements reflect Brigham's logic.
As to Alma the Younger, I also had my wayward years (I always believed in Christ however) and I know that my mother continually prayed for me. I know my mother's prayers are very effective. It took 3 years of wayward research for me to wake up. So I have no doubt that these things happen. Yet I must add that I was not sealed in the temple at that stage. I had never even entered a temple; and was not born under the covenant of a sealing. My mother's prayers were effective and the whole thing went that way without any "sealing power." I would like to believe that it is a guaranteed, as Brigham says. Scriptural support does exist for children turning out right as being guaranteed where the right person is the parent.
"For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he has spoken of him." Genesis 18:19
So God is saying that Abraham's children were guaranteed to come out right.
Yet it should be noted that both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young have said nothing about these children changing in the eternities. Anyone taking it to mean so would be doing such off his own bat, unless he can support such from Scripture. D&C 76 etc etc etc disagree with changes occurring to people's outcomes later. Now is the time for man to prepare to meet God.
IF some GA accepts an extreme interpretation of this I would have to refer to the following _
President Harold B. Lee, when president of the church, in a European area conference:
"If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth." [emphasis mine] The First Area General Conference for Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and Spain of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in Munich Germany, August 24-26, 1973, with Reports and Discourses, 69.
Of course the catch 22 of this statement is that it can't be wrong. If it is then that makes it right, because it was made by the president of the church. And if he is wrong then that makes him right.
So we need to look to the Standard Works and judge this idea. Here it gains both support for what they are saying (though not the idea of a magical sealing power) and opposition.
"...for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy to thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Exodus 20:5-6
This proposes that the evil acts of parents do come upon the children in effect to the third and fourth generation after them. Therefore as all things have an equal good and bad side, it stands that the same is true for good that parents do. Thus it is true that the good acts of the parents come upon the children to the third and fourth generation. And so Joseph Smith's statement surely must have been based on this inference.
Yet for any today to take this as an absolute, has Scriptural opposition. The second verse quoted above in Exodus demonstrates that those who love him receive mercy. So what if a person has evil parents but becomes righteous? Don't they get this mercy? And if so then the reverse must also apply.
Were the sins of Terah passed on to Abraham? From a spiritual sense it would certainly seem not. Were the sins of Levi passed on to Moses? Spiritually, no! For while God declared that they were passed on to those generations, righteousness eliminates the cursing from spiritual consequences.
"Again, when I say to the wicked, you shall surely die; if he turns from this sin, and does that which is lawful and right....he shall not die." Ezek 33:14-15 (also note verses 13 for the adverse).
So even if God declares a cursing or blessing it isn't absolute if there is a change to the opposite lifestyle. If a son of righteous parents does evil don't his children fit under the curse of Exodus 20:5-6 (quoted above)? So then are we to believe that this evil son, who has placed a 4 generation curse on his descendants, is going to go to the Celestial? And this because his parents placed a one generation blessing upon him that he can't transgress from, whatever he does?
Adam was the great archangel Michael in the pre-existence. Surely then his children will all be saved into the Celestial kingdom if we are to take these statements as absolutes.
Yet in regard Cain the Lord said,
"If you do well, you shall be accepted. And if you do not well sin lies at the door, and Satan desires to have you; and except you shall listen to my commandments, I will deliver you up, and it shall be to you according to his desire. And you shall rule over him; For from this time forward you shall be the father of his lies; you shall be called Perdition; for you were also before the world." Moses 5:23-24
Should we regard that such will be in the Celestial kingdom afterward: That the tentacles have reached out to save Cain?
What of Lehi and Sariah with Laman and Lemuel? Are we to believe that we will be with Laman and Lemuel in the Celestial kingdom?
Or can a person commit the unpardonable sin and then be saved into the Celestial kingdom because his father and mother were good people?
And what of Alma's statement? _
"You can't say, when you are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. No, you can't say this; for that same spirit which possesses your bodies at the time that you go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. For see, if you have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, look, you have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you, and has no place in you, and the devil has all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked." Alma 34:34-35
Clearly Alma is declaring that those who turn away from God and won't change back in this life, have set their course, and WON'T change it back later.
Joseph Smith received a revelation recorded in D&C 76. The only people it declares to be going to hell are those who will be in the telestial kingdom (those going to outer darkness are stated to just be in a permanent state of woe, which isn't the same hell state).
"These are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestial." verses 84-86
Note it states that they will not receive a fulness in the eternal world. No talk of them moving onto a fulness at some stage of eternity.
In regard these it goes on further to state,
"For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end." D&C 76:111-112
Two things stand out here. One is that they receive a mansion according to their works. Not the works of their parents being taken into account also. The second is that they cannot move up into the Celestial kingdom - "worlds without end."
So we have seen that making these things Joseph Smith has stated into an inevitability; proposing some magical "sealing power" that will make people become righteous again later on, is to take words to an extreme. These Scripture texts opposing such an interpretation are only a few that I could think of with almost no effort. The list of Scripture texts opposing such an extreme interpretation seem almost endless to me.
Wednesday, June 06, 2012
Sermon on the Mount, Matthew Chapter 5:1-16
This sermon is Christ's greatest teaching. He repeated it when he went to the Americas. It was a set of instructions for those who were sincere enough to follow him around. Many of the things he taught the Jews were very basic doctrines only. But here we have those things that he expressed that through following we could become perfect.
These points pose a lot of questions. Such questions as what it means to be "poor in spirit?"
Our Scriptural sense would suggest that it means that we should feel humble inside. We are promised the kingdom of heaven by qualifying. Which presents that without the humility we won't be heirs to that kingdom.
Then we are told that we will be blessed by mourning. I can say that I know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ feel great remorse for the many things that mankind do that bring misery to themselves and/or others. Yet it goes on to say that they shall be comforted. This I have experienced in the love I have felt for a person I mourned for because of her apostasy. Yet my heart felt so uplifted by the love that the upliftment was the greater.
Then we come to the meek being blessed. Meek seems to be being strong in person, yet not assertive unless it is important to do so. Such are promised the earth. This seems to imply inheriting the Celestialised earth after its resurrection.
We then come to hungering and thirsting after righteousness. This is referring to a powerful drawing toward everything good. The promise is that we shall be filled with the Holy Ghost (3 Nep 12:6). This I have also felt many times. As we hunger inside for good things and ponder upon the things of righteousness the Holy Ghost fills us more and we have that greater communication.
Then we are informed that we are blessed if we have mercy. If we have such to others then we shall have such to ourselves and be able to accept the forgiveness of God. Whereas if we condemn others and don't accept the idea of forgiveness then neither will we accept to forgive ourselves, and will lack the faith to accept the atonement of Christ in its fullness.
Next we are told that we should be pure in heart; and that by doing so we shall see God. If you have that pure desire for all good things then you will come to walk and talk with the Father and the Savior. It is a wonderful blessing to feel the love of both as you learn and discuss things with them. Being in their presence is truly being in heaven.
Then he mentions the peacemakers. These he calls the children of God. This makes sense as God has peace in him and desires it for all. So if we copy our God in our hearts, then we are his children from a religious aspect also. I like that thought.
Then we are told that we are blessed when we are persecuted because of our righteous lifestyle. This is something I find amazing in my life. My religious beliefs get me into trouble and then out of it. Generally it is because God sends someone or several to help me in spite of it. We learn from the struggle and finally come out the other side.
Then we are told that we are blessed when people revile and persecute us by false accusation, for the sake of the truth Christ taught. This generally takes form in claims against us as church members. Christ said that we should regard this positively because it happened to prophetic servants of God in the past.
He then relates us to salt, to say that we should keep our flavor. To me this means to keep focused on the Lord's work.
Next he talks of us having that light and that we should keep showing it to others.
These verses cover some amazing things. They appeal to us to think in a way opposite from that of the world. They teach us to oppose the ego. They teach us to ignore self and focus on service to others. They teach us how to be Godlike.
I will write further on this sermon later.
These points pose a lot of questions. Such questions as what it means to be "poor in spirit?"
Our Scriptural sense would suggest that it means that we should feel humble inside. We are promised the kingdom of heaven by qualifying. Which presents that without the humility we won't be heirs to that kingdom.
Then we are told that we will be blessed by mourning. I can say that I know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ feel great remorse for the many things that mankind do that bring misery to themselves and/or others. Yet it goes on to say that they shall be comforted. This I have experienced in the love I have felt for a person I mourned for because of her apostasy. Yet my heart felt so uplifted by the love that the upliftment was the greater.
Then we come to the meek being blessed. Meek seems to be being strong in person, yet not assertive unless it is important to do so. Such are promised the earth. This seems to imply inheriting the Celestialised earth after its resurrection.
We then come to hungering and thirsting after righteousness. This is referring to a powerful drawing toward everything good. The promise is that we shall be filled with the Holy Ghost (3 Nep 12:6). This I have also felt many times. As we hunger inside for good things and ponder upon the things of righteousness the Holy Ghost fills us more and we have that greater communication.
Then we are informed that we are blessed if we have mercy. If we have such to others then we shall have such to ourselves and be able to accept the forgiveness of God. Whereas if we condemn others and don't accept the idea of forgiveness then neither will we accept to forgive ourselves, and will lack the faith to accept the atonement of Christ in its fullness.
Next we are told that we should be pure in heart; and that by doing so we shall see God. If you have that pure desire for all good things then you will come to walk and talk with the Father and the Savior. It is a wonderful blessing to feel the love of both as you learn and discuss things with them. Being in their presence is truly being in heaven.
Then he mentions the peacemakers. These he calls the children of God. This makes sense as God has peace in him and desires it for all. So if we copy our God in our hearts, then we are his children from a religious aspect also. I like that thought.
Then we are told that we are blessed when we are persecuted because of our righteous lifestyle. This is something I find amazing in my life. My religious beliefs get me into trouble and then out of it. Generally it is because God sends someone or several to help me in spite of it. We learn from the struggle and finally come out the other side.
Then we are told that we are blessed when people revile and persecute us by false accusation, for the sake of the truth Christ taught. This generally takes form in claims against us as church members. Christ said that we should regard this positively because it happened to prophetic servants of God in the past.
He then relates us to salt, to say that we should keep our flavor. To me this means to keep focused on the Lord's work.
Next he talks of us having that light and that we should keep showing it to others.
These verses cover some amazing things. They appeal to us to think in a way opposite from that of the world. They teach us to oppose the ego. They teach us to ignore self and focus on service to others. They teach us how to be Godlike.
I will write further on this sermon later.
Sunday, May 13, 2012
What it Was Like in the Pre-existence
*NOTE* Firstly I should point out that the church has almost no officially stated doctrine on the pre-existence. Let me additionally state that this post, therefore, has a lot of heavy ideas presented in it, particularly as it gets further into the subject. I have cut this down somewhat from what I originally planned on posting, to try and soften it. If you find yourself overwhelmed by the different ideas presented (which you probably will at some point), then stop and come back to it later when you feel you have absorbed what you have read so far. It is better that you treat it as a wild theory that you can consider over time and using the Holy Ghost as guide. Though let me assure you that I know these things are true.
Many have posed the question of what we did from day to day and what were we like in the pre-existence. I have posted on the subject before, mostly from a basic Scriptural position. So if you are interested in the Scriptural backing for some of these ideas I'd suggest a read of that post; which was posted in May 2007. This is an extension of the subject that goes well beyond the original. Happy reading.
For those non-members reading who don't know what the pre-existence is, it is about the time before you came to this earth and were born as a mortal. This time is generally forgotten by you during this earth life.
While we talk of the pre-existence as if it was one event, it actually was made up of two parts. For eternity we have existed as an intelligence only. Then eventually our Heavenly Parents turned up and provided a spirit body to those who were prepared to go along with it. This latter body is made of spirit matter. Spirit matter is more refined and pure and therefore harder for our natural eyes to see it. We are better off to look at it with our spirit eyes. If we get into sufficient of a spiritual state we can do this.
So let's look at the life of your average eternal intelligence. Great multitudes of intelligences existed. Numbers beyond comprehension. Yet all were at varying levels of intelligence. For example Jesus Christ (Jehovah) was the most advanced within the enormous area eventually covered by Heavenly Father in his expansion here. This is why he was the first born spirit of our Heavenly Parents. Next came those other spirits showing the greatest potential. These were termed sons and daughters of the morning because they were born the earliest. Additionally there were those who were born with spirit bodies as a lesser species, such as grass or ants, to their respective Heavenly Parents.
For some reason, unknown to me, there are those intelligences who chose to advance throughout eternity and those who just didn't. And there were varying degrees of such, of course. This fulfils the natural and obvious law of eternity which says that where something can be up, something else can, and will, be down.
An intelligence is as much comprehended as seen, in that it has no discernible external shape. An intelligence isn't made of matter and can't be either made or destroyed (however there is some debate about whether it can be destroyed by its own actions). An intelligence has an enormous size, yet can fit even in a baby. It isn't affected by dimensions in the way physical or spirit matter objects are. It is interesting that a small child walking past is as full an intelligence as the child's mother and father walking with them. Heavenly Father has an intelligence that is far bigger than anybody else. Jesus Christ isn't far behind.
You can discern the fire of truth in a good intelligence. This can actually be seen spiritually. This fire was demonstrated at Pentecost, for example. And in the eyes of the Savior, as seen by several people in Scripture. The righteous are said to dwell in everlasting burnings (Isa 33:14-15). This spiritual fire is demonstrated when we feel the Holy Spirit give us the burning of truth inside our spirit.
An intelligence remembers its existence. It hasn't forgotten anything. But when it was placed in a spirit body after conception by our Heavenly Mother and Father the new spirit body part will eventually forget its intelligence only pre-existence. The demands of having a spirit body, and the new reality of it, makes the intelligence create a new awareness within itself (the intelligence time section isn't heard very well). Then eventually as we have grown and learnt enough as a spirit being, we receive a physical body by the same birth process, through mortal parents. Once again the demands of the more obvious, now physical, takes precedence over the spirit body time and the intelligence only time. Thus we eventually come to forget, in our mortal section, the time as a pre-existent spirit also. It goes from being a reality, as a baby (babies see spirits), to just being a dream and then forgotten in the mortal section. However portions can come back all of a sudden or it can be remembered with sufficient need to remember and you seeking it.
As the new intelligence section, created during our physical body time, has to communicate to the physical body to get it to function, it focuses itself in the head. This way it can create electrical impulses in the brain to get our body to do as it chooses. We don't need to use much of the brain matter to get our bodies to do all necessary functions. It learns this in the time in the womb while growing. As there is more space to fit the spirit body in the central torso area, it resides there; and we talk about heart feelings and burning in our bosom.
The intelligence only portion doesn't actually need a place to reside as such. It is more a case of finding it deep within our being. You need to go down beyond the spirit and find it down there.
An intelligence is capable of thinking at speeds that make our fastest computers look like they are standing still. I believe the possible reasons why we mostly don't think at this speed is either laziness, seeing no point in it or becoming too used to only thinking at somewhere just ahead of the speed our mouth moves at to talk. Of course, it could be a mixture of all three of those.
So what did intelligences do before getting a spirit body? We found suitable companions for our existence style (as we do now). For higher intelligences these included intelligences of both genders, as friends, rather than just those of the same gender. Because the opposite gender sees things differently, hearing their opinions creates a greater balance of ideas. Also a greater balance in emotional feelings. Some sort to be one with each other, by moving together as close as possible to feel and express love. No doubt this was also giving a sense of security of friendships. Males and females have always been different. God chose those with female inclinations to be female and those with male inclinations to be male. Naturally, these inclinations come in varying degrees from person to person. God uses these same genders when we are born in this mortal life. Thus we don't have a woman born in a man's body, as some have been deceived to believe. We are still an intelligence. In fact we are the same basic intelligence, regardless of our experiences. Yet we grow as an individual intelligence through our experiences. We could sense one another's presence by scanning out with our minds. In fact we could find one another by using this process. We used mental communication.
Some have concluded that our intelligence is made of many smaller intelligences collected together. This theory could be brought about by the fact that our spirit body (as also our physical body) is actually made of particles with intelligences in them. Also that our intelligence is capable of scanning out for great distances (as God does) could confuse people into thinking there must be lots of intelligences. However this may just demonstrate that the size an intelligence can expand itself to depends upon how intelligent it is. Because particles have intelligence and we can scan out, those creating could get particles to move: By appealing to those intelligences with love.
Heavenly Father is also an intelligence as we are, yet he has grown in his good attributes and knowledge to become what he is today. He also has a spirit body and physical body that is resurrected. This is his intension for us.
When we look at activities that were available, during the intelligence only time, we have such things as pattern finding. While no eyes were available, by scanning we could detect objects and their size and placement. Then finding patterns within the objects available can be fun. It's a bit like finding patterns on tiles for example. You can find diagonal or parallel lines between tiles of some color or shade etc. Also thought games can be played where clues are given. The list is almost endless with a bit of imagination and eternity to think of them in. Additionally, those thus inclined observed things about eternal laws and existence.
Don't forget; if you feel it is getting too heavy give it a break and think it through until you are ready to come back to it.
Moving on to the spirit body time we went through the time of forgetting. This meant that the intelligence section that we were then working in wasn't communicating with the original section sufficiently to create a being in perfect harmony with the original section. We go through a time in our lives like that after getting our physical bodies. The great majority never find perfect union between listening to both the spirit section's opinion (heart) and our physical section's opinions (mind) equally, let alone our intelligence section's opinions. This should be worked toward.
So getting back to the spirit body time; we begin to grow our spirit body and learn how to use our spirit limbs etc. The spirit body is much easier to manipulate than the physical body. We learnt how to make the particles travel extremely fast. And I mean extremely. Additionally to this, those with sufficient love began to learn how to move physical matter. As the basic particles have intelligences in them we can persuade them to move, through demonstrating love toward them. This was eventually, used by those thus inclined, in the creation process, under the direction of Jesus Christ. Our ability to move small amounts of matter, such as a mountain, were evidenced by Christ in saying that it required almost no faith at all to do such. Additionally, we have all learnt to create electrical pulses in our brains to get our body to move. This is a demonstration of the ability of our intelligence to manipulate matter.
We had things to learn that are unique to our spirit body. We had to learn to do the right things with ourselves. We continued on in friendships previously had (I feel God would see to that - my personal opinion). I also believe this of at least some within this earth life. Yet as we all had freedom of choice there were an enormous amount that eventually refused to come to earth. Some were concerned about the risk factor. This made Lucifer pose an impossible idea that he could make sure that all were saved. As freedom of choice is fundamental to the existence of all intelligences (even an ant) we cannot have a situation where we lose freedom of choice. Yet Lucifer was silly enough to believe this idea, along with so many that refused to come down. When we look at the vast numbers of people that have come down to these inhabited planets that were made around the same time as this one, we should remember that half that number (one third of those present during the spirit body time) followed Lucifer rather than Heavenly Father. That is a huge lot of spirits.
This informs us that being in Heavenly Father's presence doesn't automatically make us want to do what God says. Any more than we do with our earthly parents. (This shows the importance of us learning to see the value in following all the things the Savior taught) And it is obvious that while amongst those there were some that were strongly opposed to Heavenly Father, there would be a large variety of depth of interest. Some of that third are zealots, while others barely could care less: Just the same as those coming here to get a physical body. Jesus Christ was strongly supporting the idea while some of the two-thirds swang backwards and forwards on the idea until eventually going along with it. It took a lot of persuasion by Heavenly Father to get certain spirits to come. For example many required assurances that they wouldn't be placed with fathers such as Elijah or Abraham, whom they regarded as over-enthusiasts. Additionally there were those who realised that they were ridiculously unlikely to end up as a son of perdition if they couldn't be given the priesthood. Heavenly Father did all he could to end up with a good majority prepared to actually move forward rather that stay in their comfort zone.
I hope all have gained something from what I have written. For those who may feel I have said too much, I can assure you that there were many things that I have refrained from saying in those areas I felt could be too heavy. Yet it is a lot of ideas not usually spoken of.
In concluding this post let me restate, for the sake of non-members and new members, that the church has virtually NO declared doctrine on the pre-existence other than a small amount of the many things contained in the Standard Works of the church.
Many have posed the question of what we did from day to day and what were we like in the pre-existence. I have posted on the subject before, mostly from a basic Scriptural position. So if you are interested in the Scriptural backing for some of these ideas I'd suggest a read of that post; which was posted in May 2007. This is an extension of the subject that goes well beyond the original. Happy reading.
For those non-members reading who don't know what the pre-existence is, it is about the time before you came to this earth and were born as a mortal. This time is generally forgotten by you during this earth life.
While we talk of the pre-existence as if it was one event, it actually was made up of two parts. For eternity we have existed as an intelligence only. Then eventually our Heavenly Parents turned up and provided a spirit body to those who were prepared to go along with it. This latter body is made of spirit matter. Spirit matter is more refined and pure and therefore harder for our natural eyes to see it. We are better off to look at it with our spirit eyes. If we get into sufficient of a spiritual state we can do this.
So let's look at the life of your average eternal intelligence. Great multitudes of intelligences existed. Numbers beyond comprehension. Yet all were at varying levels of intelligence. For example Jesus Christ (Jehovah) was the most advanced within the enormous area eventually covered by Heavenly Father in his expansion here. This is why he was the first born spirit of our Heavenly Parents. Next came those other spirits showing the greatest potential. These were termed sons and daughters of the morning because they were born the earliest. Additionally there were those who were born with spirit bodies as a lesser species, such as grass or ants, to their respective Heavenly Parents.
For some reason, unknown to me, there are those intelligences who chose to advance throughout eternity and those who just didn't. And there were varying degrees of such, of course. This fulfils the natural and obvious law of eternity which says that where something can be up, something else can, and will, be down.
An intelligence is as much comprehended as seen, in that it has no discernible external shape. An intelligence isn't made of matter and can't be either made or destroyed (however there is some debate about whether it can be destroyed by its own actions). An intelligence has an enormous size, yet can fit even in a baby. It isn't affected by dimensions in the way physical or spirit matter objects are. It is interesting that a small child walking past is as full an intelligence as the child's mother and father walking with them. Heavenly Father has an intelligence that is far bigger than anybody else. Jesus Christ isn't far behind.
You can discern the fire of truth in a good intelligence. This can actually be seen spiritually. This fire was demonstrated at Pentecost, for example. And in the eyes of the Savior, as seen by several people in Scripture. The righteous are said to dwell in everlasting burnings (Isa 33:14-15). This spiritual fire is demonstrated when we feel the Holy Spirit give us the burning of truth inside our spirit.
An intelligence remembers its existence. It hasn't forgotten anything. But when it was placed in a spirit body after conception by our Heavenly Mother and Father the new spirit body part will eventually forget its intelligence only pre-existence. The demands of having a spirit body, and the new reality of it, makes the intelligence create a new awareness within itself (the intelligence time section isn't heard very well). Then eventually as we have grown and learnt enough as a spirit being, we receive a physical body by the same birth process, through mortal parents. Once again the demands of the more obvious, now physical, takes precedence over the spirit body time and the intelligence only time. Thus we eventually come to forget, in our mortal section, the time as a pre-existent spirit also. It goes from being a reality, as a baby (babies see spirits), to just being a dream and then forgotten in the mortal section. However portions can come back all of a sudden or it can be remembered with sufficient need to remember and you seeking it.
As the new intelligence section, created during our physical body time, has to communicate to the physical body to get it to function, it focuses itself in the head. This way it can create electrical impulses in the brain to get our body to do as it chooses. We don't need to use much of the brain matter to get our bodies to do all necessary functions. It learns this in the time in the womb while growing. As there is more space to fit the spirit body in the central torso area, it resides there; and we talk about heart feelings and burning in our bosom.
The intelligence only portion doesn't actually need a place to reside as such. It is more a case of finding it deep within our being. You need to go down beyond the spirit and find it down there.
An intelligence is capable of thinking at speeds that make our fastest computers look like they are standing still. I believe the possible reasons why we mostly don't think at this speed is either laziness, seeing no point in it or becoming too used to only thinking at somewhere just ahead of the speed our mouth moves at to talk. Of course, it could be a mixture of all three of those.
So what did intelligences do before getting a spirit body? We found suitable companions for our existence style (as we do now). For higher intelligences these included intelligences of both genders, as friends, rather than just those of the same gender. Because the opposite gender sees things differently, hearing their opinions creates a greater balance of ideas. Also a greater balance in emotional feelings. Some sort to be one with each other, by moving together as close as possible to feel and express love. No doubt this was also giving a sense of security of friendships. Males and females have always been different. God chose those with female inclinations to be female and those with male inclinations to be male. Naturally, these inclinations come in varying degrees from person to person. God uses these same genders when we are born in this mortal life. Thus we don't have a woman born in a man's body, as some have been deceived to believe. We are still an intelligence. In fact we are the same basic intelligence, regardless of our experiences. Yet we grow as an individual intelligence through our experiences. We could sense one another's presence by scanning out with our minds. In fact we could find one another by using this process. We used mental communication.
Some have concluded that our intelligence is made of many smaller intelligences collected together. This theory could be brought about by the fact that our spirit body (as also our physical body) is actually made of particles with intelligences in them. Also that our intelligence is capable of scanning out for great distances (as God does) could confuse people into thinking there must be lots of intelligences. However this may just demonstrate that the size an intelligence can expand itself to depends upon how intelligent it is. Because particles have intelligence and we can scan out, those creating could get particles to move: By appealing to those intelligences with love.
Heavenly Father is also an intelligence as we are, yet he has grown in his good attributes and knowledge to become what he is today. He also has a spirit body and physical body that is resurrected. This is his intension for us.
When we look at activities that were available, during the intelligence only time, we have such things as pattern finding. While no eyes were available, by scanning we could detect objects and their size and placement. Then finding patterns within the objects available can be fun. It's a bit like finding patterns on tiles for example. You can find diagonal or parallel lines between tiles of some color or shade etc. Also thought games can be played where clues are given. The list is almost endless with a bit of imagination and eternity to think of them in. Additionally, those thus inclined observed things about eternal laws and existence.
Don't forget; if you feel it is getting too heavy give it a break and think it through until you are ready to come back to it.
Moving on to the spirit body time we went through the time of forgetting. This meant that the intelligence section that we were then working in wasn't communicating with the original section sufficiently to create a being in perfect harmony with the original section. We go through a time in our lives like that after getting our physical bodies. The great majority never find perfect union between listening to both the spirit section's opinion (heart) and our physical section's opinions (mind) equally, let alone our intelligence section's opinions. This should be worked toward.
So getting back to the spirit body time; we begin to grow our spirit body and learn how to use our spirit limbs etc. The spirit body is much easier to manipulate than the physical body. We learnt how to make the particles travel extremely fast. And I mean extremely. Additionally to this, those with sufficient love began to learn how to move physical matter. As the basic particles have intelligences in them we can persuade them to move, through demonstrating love toward them. This was eventually, used by those thus inclined, in the creation process, under the direction of Jesus Christ. Our ability to move small amounts of matter, such as a mountain, were evidenced by Christ in saying that it required almost no faith at all to do such. Additionally, we have all learnt to create electrical pulses in our brains to get our body to move. This is a demonstration of the ability of our intelligence to manipulate matter.
We had things to learn that are unique to our spirit body. We had to learn to do the right things with ourselves. We continued on in friendships previously had (I feel God would see to that - my personal opinion). I also believe this of at least some within this earth life. Yet as we all had freedom of choice there were an enormous amount that eventually refused to come to earth. Some were concerned about the risk factor. This made Lucifer pose an impossible idea that he could make sure that all were saved. As freedom of choice is fundamental to the existence of all intelligences (even an ant) we cannot have a situation where we lose freedom of choice. Yet Lucifer was silly enough to believe this idea, along with so many that refused to come down. When we look at the vast numbers of people that have come down to these inhabited planets that were made around the same time as this one, we should remember that half that number (one third of those present during the spirit body time) followed Lucifer rather than Heavenly Father. That is a huge lot of spirits.
This informs us that being in Heavenly Father's presence doesn't automatically make us want to do what God says. Any more than we do with our earthly parents. (This shows the importance of us learning to see the value in following all the things the Savior taught) And it is obvious that while amongst those there were some that were strongly opposed to Heavenly Father, there would be a large variety of depth of interest. Some of that third are zealots, while others barely could care less: Just the same as those coming here to get a physical body. Jesus Christ was strongly supporting the idea while some of the two-thirds swang backwards and forwards on the idea until eventually going along with it. It took a lot of persuasion by Heavenly Father to get certain spirits to come. For example many required assurances that they wouldn't be placed with fathers such as Elijah or Abraham, whom they regarded as over-enthusiasts. Additionally there were those who realised that they were ridiculously unlikely to end up as a son of perdition if they couldn't be given the priesthood. Heavenly Father did all he could to end up with a good majority prepared to actually move forward rather that stay in their comfort zone.
I hope all have gained something from what I have written. For those who may feel I have said too much, I can assure you that there were many things that I have refrained from saying in those areas I felt could be too heavy. Yet it is a lot of ideas not usually spoken of.
In concluding this post let me restate, for the sake of non-members and new members, that the church has virtually NO declared doctrine on the pre-existence other than a small amount of the many things contained in the Standard Works of the church.
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